QUESTIONER #2: How are your denominations taking this research that you’ve done? You come from both different denominations and I’m just wondering how are your churches taking it?
CRIS: My church is actually having me teach on the book Petrus Romanus on this Malachi prophecy and our writings there, so they’re somewhat accepting. I mean I think that some people are always reserved when it comes to End Times theories a lot of times because there’s been so many ideas that have seemed to be discredited. We’re not setting any dates. We’re just talking about things that are factual. I mean the fact that this prophecy has been around, it was published in 1595, and so this is beyond dispute. Now how’d it really gone over, a lot this stuff about UFO’s and aliens, my church is really not aware of that yet, so we’ll— (laughs)
SID: But Cris, you are such a— scholar, such a theologian. How in the world could you get into such a subject as this!?
AUDIENCE: (LAUGHTER)
CRIS: I’ll you what, I mean— I’m honest with myself, and I’ve looked at the data, okay. And I list some books, in our book “Exo-Vaticana” that you, other than our book. There’s one called, there’s two, there’s two really good ones, but one by Leslie Kean, and she has a column in the Huffington Post, too. But it’s about UFO’s and it’s about sightings of pilots and generals and military officials. Okay? The governor of Arizona, Fife Symington, he was an officer in the Air Force. He saw a mile wide craft fly over Phoenix. Okay? Thousands of people saw this. If you don’t believe me go home and look it up.
SID: Thousands?
CRIS: Thousands of people saw it. And I mean like the movie “Independence Day,” you know, we think that if something like that happened everybody would know about it, right? Well they don’t. It’s happened! More than once. It happened over Hudson Valley New York in the 1980’s. —but you go home and look up the “Phoenix lights” and look up Fife Symington.” He was the governor of the state. And he, he kept it quiet when it happened and like 6-7 years later he came out and admitted that he saw it and in his opinion it was not of this world. And he was a former Air Force officer.
SID: Huh! Tom.
TOM: And many of these experts also talk about there being a spiritual dynamic. That many of these appearances give people a kind of a religious euphoria. But sometimes the appearance itself behaves in ways that seems almost to be intelligent, it can metamorph. One of our insiders is Nick Pope who ran the UFO investigation department for the military of defense in Britain and I’ve talked with Nick on many occasions and Nick told me that now the government of Britain is actually preparing a high tech “apparati” to defend Britain from an alien invasion.
SID: This is serious stuff. But how does your, how does your sphere of influence, the Assembly of God, the charismatic world react to your two books?
TOM: You have to understand that this really cutting edge. There are some of them who wonder why we would even pursue a prophecy from a Catholic source. But then there’s others that are in the organization that believe like we do that you can’t limit how God might determine He’s going to express a truth. For instance, Nebuchadnezzar, a narcissistic evil king is given one of the most profound revelations in history with his great image and then God even requires His servant Daniel to interpret it for the king. You have Balaam, a sorcerer who’s prophesying against Israel. He’s a sorcerer for hire, and yet he says “a scepter shall rise out of Judah, a star in Jacob,” and this is the very prophecy that leads the Magi probably in the New Testament to find the birth of Christ so sometimes revelation comes in ways that doesn’t fit into our neat little denominational boxes and that’s certainly true for the Assemblies of God, too.
Tags: It's Supernatural, Sid Roth
SID: Joshua, I can’t wait to pick your brain on the glory, ’cause you’re one of these people that were a forerunner in this. But you said the glory came with three progressive supernatural experiences. Tell me about that.
JOSHUA: There were three very specific signs that began to take place. The first one was the fragrance of Heaven would come and actually fill the atmosphere. When that began to happen, people would begin to run to the altars. The second sign that happened was the oil, the supernatural oil, began flowing. I would get it a little bit, but it was happening for more of my worship team, the different—
SID: Now, when you say “flowing,” explain to me. Flowing from your hands?
JOSHUA: You know what? Supernatural oil literally flowing from our hands. Some would get it on the backs of their necks. Some would get it from their foreheads. Others would have it flowing from their feet.
SID: Do you find this contagious, that it spreads from one person to another?
JOSHUA: There’s always an impartation in the Spirit of God. There is an impartation in these things. It seems—
SID: People watching us right now, they could start having oil on their palms or forehead?
JOSHUA: Actually, I feel right now the Spirit of God, just even as you said that, that there are people at home that are watching this program right now and the glory is beginning to manifest for you. There’s supernatural oil, I believe, even beginning to come in your hands right now as you’re watching. Just thank God that His healing oil, His oil of peace, His oil of joy, His oil of goodness is coming to bring you miracles right now.
SID: This is what, from my viewpoint, you’re known as. I mean, I would see pictures of you at the piano and I’ve seen a little gold dust on someone’s face, etc., but you really go for it. I’ve seen you coated in that gold dust.
JOSHUA: Well, you know what, the more you get into the glory, the more the glory gets on you and in you and around you. There’s times when we go into that glory and that was the third sign that God gave us, was the golden glory begin to manifest. It’s an awesome and glorious thing. Sometimes it’s hard for people to believe it at first when they hear about it because it seems so unusual. But the truth is when you get it yourself, you know that it’s God. You know that it’s the glory.
SID: Now, glory causes everything in the Bible to get unstuck for you. For instance, glory causes creative miracles. I have not seen this, but I have heard of this before. In India, you prayed for someone’s eye. What happened?
JOSHUA: Right. I was praying for a young woman and as I laid my hands on the sockets of her eyes where there were no eyeballs, as I laid my hands—
SID: By the way, it’s one thing to pray for someone to get rid of their glasses. It’s another level to pray for someone that is blind and has eyeballs. But did you hear what he said? No eyeballs. Go ahead.
JOSHUA: As I laid my hands upon the sockets of her eyes literally underneath my fingers as I was praying for her, I could feel eyeballs beginning to form under her eyelids. There’s no other way to explain it, but it’s a supernatural, creative miracle of God. We’ve seen these things happen time after time. I’ve prayed for people that had no muscle in their arm or very little muscle in their arm and muscle began to come. I mean, these are the things that God is doing in His glory. He’s taking nothing and He’s making something. He’s taking what looks so impossible and He’s making it supernaturally possible.
SID: This is probably why you’re saying that now, more than any other time, is the time to press in for the glory.
JOSHUA: This is the time when God is wanting us to go further in His glory than ever before because there’s so much new that’s available for us. As believers, sometimes we’ve been stuck in a rut or we’ve been just used to the same old thing, but God’s wanting to take us out of what’s been familiar or what’s been known and lead us into the dimensions of all that He has for us in the promises of God.
SID: Now, you say that God’s glory is always progressive. Explain that.
JOSHUA: Well, I believe that revelation’s always progressive. God takes us from the realms of faith into the realms of anointing and gives us faith and anointing to lead us into the realms of glory. Those three realms together, faith, anointing, and glory, those three sides, spiritually speaking, create a new dimension where we access the more of God, the greater of God, the fullness of God in all of His goodness and all of His glory.
SID: Now, that’s good that you operate that way. But what about you? What about the person that’s looking at you right now and is saying, “Well, that’s wonderful for Joshua, but can I? I haven’t been to Bible school. I’m a housewife. I don’t have enough time to pray like I want to. Can I move in this?”
JOSHUA: I want to tell you this right now, that no matter what you’ve been through, no matter what you’ve been going through, God wants you to move in His glory to a place where you begin to live in this realm. There is so much more available for you. As you begin to press in under the anointing, there’s going to be a flow of glory that begins to take over and ushers you into the newness of God.
SID: The thing that you share, talk and teach about is in this glory, it just happens. We don’t have to do anything.
JOSHUA: Right, right.
SID: I like that.
JOSHUA: There’s an ease. There’s a rest in the glory. It’s flowing in the glory. It’s not working, it’s not laboring. We labor to enter into the rest. That’s what the Scriptures say. But when we’re in the rest, it’s in that place we just get to flow in the goodness of who God is.
SID: Now, you have an angel. As a matter of fact, he has three angels that travel with him. But one in particular intrigues me. He’s an angel that causes miracles. Joshua has found there is a way to—everyone has an angel. There’s a way to cooperate with your angels and a way to muzzle your angels. We’ll talk about that when we come back.
Tags: It's Supernatural, Sid Roth
PERRY: All right, let me go back to the Seven Seal Book because now this again is just basic introductory material on the Book of Revelation. One of the things that helped me to believe and understand that “The Tribulation” happens, it starts happening around chapter 5 in the Book of Revelation but you have this multitude in heaven— you know all of a sudden you’ve got chapter 2 and chapter 3 which are seven churches, which can represent seven church ages, and then it shifts in chapter 4. The church is never mentioned again in the whole Book of Revelation after chapter 4. It’s only mentioned in chapter 2 or 3. The shifting is “I heard a voice from heaven like a trumpet saying “come up hither.” That’s the picture of 1st Thessalonians 4, the “catching away.” And immediately he’s [John] in the throne room in the spirit there. Okay? But— let’s go back to the “7 Seal Book.” Why “seven seals”? Because He addresses 7 churches and He also addresses the 7 church pastors. Now this is— if we take the idea that in the Roman period a very wealthy person’s “will” was sealed with 7 seals, and in order for the will to be opened there had to be a representative from the family that sealed it to match the signet ring on the seal. If we take that assumption and build on that, then guess what we come up with as a conclusion? That before the 7 sealed book can be opened, you have to have the 7 pastors with the 7 churches that it’s addressed to standing before the Lamb at the Throne Room.
AUDIENCE: Whooo!
LARRY: Because the Book was addressed to them. It was addressed to those seven. Remember? Now if that’s so, then you know what that means? All those folks that’s mentioned in this Book in chapter 2 and 3, the church at Smyrna, Ephesus, Philadelphia, Thyatira, Laodicea, etcetera, Ephesus, you know, on and on, seven of them it means that all those people are now dead, all those pastors are in the grave. It also means that when the dead in Christ rise they will be risen— they will raise up with all the dead in Christ for the past 1900 and 88, 1900 and 90 years or however long until the Lord comes and then all of us who are living will be caught up. And it means that those to whom the Book was addressed have to be present when the seals are opened. Now what that means is that’s a strong argument for “Pre-Tribulation catching away.” Because it’s not just He’s going to come for partial church or partial dead in Christ, THE dead, meaning all the dead in Christ are going to rise at the same time. And so this is interesting. Now the second thing I want to tell you that, that intrigued me when I started doing the study— now I’ve, I’ve been in church all my life. I said one time I was born in church, I really wasn’t, I was born in a hospital like everybody else. That’s just an expression we ministers say, “I’s been raised in church, born in church.” But uh, we did not teach a lot from the Book of Revelation. I have a good friend of mine named Donald Perkins, he’s an African-American brother, and I said “When you grew up, Donald, did they preach a lot on the Book?” And he said, ‘no, as a matter of fact they told you to stay away from it when I grew up.” And I said, “Why did they do that?” They said, “Well they were so afraid of misinterpreting it because of the curse that’s placed on misinterpreting it, that we just— He said— “Honestly, Perry, we left the Book alone.
Tags: It's Supernatural, Sid Roth
SID: Not only is Tony Kemp now operating the same miracles as my guests, but you told me something. Right from the gate, I want to go there. You told me God wants to heal people right now.
TONY: Yes.
SID: Talk to them.
TONY: The Lord spoke to my heart that he was going to heal people today, and he is specifically going to heal people with back conditions. For the person that has an issue with the spine, you’re being healed by Yeshua right now. There’s a person who has metal in your back, there’s a person with rods, there was a person with metal in the leg, and it’s causing you pain and discomfort and you’re being healed by Yeshua right now. There are creative miracles. You’re going to discover that your pain is decreasing, you’re going to discover your pain is going to go away, and there’s going to be at two different kinds of miracles in regards to this metal miracle. The metal’s going to remain, but the pain will be gone and you’ll have perfect mobility. And in other cases, your metal is going to literally disappear. It’s going to be replaced with bone, and all your pain is going to be gone. Jesus is doing it for you right now.
SID: Tony, you were supposed to turn the tables on me. Are you going to do it?
TONY: I am going to turn the tables on you here.
SID: Watch this, everyone.
TONY: I’ve been on your program and number of times and you’ve always interviewed me, but I want to interview you. And what is a Jewish man? How did you come to know Jesus as your Messiah?
SID: I was looking for happiness.
Just trust me, you’re going to make money.
SID: I was successful in business but when I realized that I will not be a millionaire by age 30, depression and hopelessness set it. I even checked out the bar scene. After all, I was really young when I got married, but I’m convinced the bars are filled with the most hopeless loneliest people in the world. One day someone said, “I have a friend that took a new age course, and now he knows things that were never programmed in his mind. So, I took the course there and making a long story short, I was violating my own Jewish scriptures and didn’t know it.
SID: In the 18th chapter of the book of Deuteronomy, God says it’s an abomination to be involved with witchcraft, reincarnation, going to fortune tellers, being involved with psychics, seances, new age, and you suffer consequences. I did. I knew something. I knew there was something evil inside of me, and I wanted out. If you ever saw the movie or read the book, The Exorcist, I was living it. But what does a Jewish, what does even a Christian person do that’s like that? Most ministers on aren’t equipped to help you. I had nowhere to go.
SID: And so, I’d met some Christian friends who said, “If you would pray to God in the name of your Messiah Jesus, he’ll set you free. Well, you know, Tony, when someone is going down for the third time in the middle of the ocean, you don’t care who throws you a rope. Therefore, I prayed a very simple prayer, two-word prayer, Jesus, help! And I went to bed and I did not want to wake up, life was too hard. But I did wake up the next morning and there was a presence of God. It was thick, it was tangible. Today I know it’s the glory, the manifest presence of God. I can just tell you it came in my room, that demon that was inside of me, couldn’t take the heat, it left.
SID: I was separated from my wife for a year at that point, and I heard the audible voice of God for the first time in my life. He said, “I hate divorce, return to” — I didn’t know he was quoting Malachi. He was quoting Malachi. I found it in the Bible. I was so excited when I found it. He said, “I hate divorce, return to your wife and daughter.” And so, Joyce and I have been married for 53 years.
TONY: Amen.
SID: That’s the short story of how I became a believer in Jesus. Well, the glory of God touched your life and you heard the voice of the Lord. And because you had this supernatural encounter with God, you were given a hunger for the supernatural and a passion for the miraculous. Tell us a little bit about how that developed.
TONY: Well, I have to tell you, a lot of people judge me. First of all, you’re not supposed to judge me, according to the Bible. Second of all, a lot of people judge me and say, “Oh, he just is so crazy for miracles.” No. If you read the Bible, you will see there is a biblical way to get people saved. It’s called demonstrate the kingdom and earn the right to present the King. My passion is souls. He who wins souls is wise.
SID: I want you to know that I’m amazed, Tony, and you know this because you’re on my board, that I’ll go in front of 1000 Jewish people that know nothing about the Messiah and I’ll have a couple of words of knowledge, and 60, 70% of unsaved Jewish people say, “I’ve just been healed,” and I’m in more awe than they are. And then they will listen to an hour presentation from the Jewish scriptures as to why Jesus is the Messiah. That’s God’s way. I want to do things God’s way. Maybe things aren’t working because we’re not doing things God’s way. That’s why, I don’t mean to yell at you, but I’m excited. That’s why I am so fascinated with the supernatural. It earns a right for me to present the gospel.
TONY: Amen.
SID: When we come back, I’m going to turn in the tables back on Tony Kemp, and I’m going to find out about his face to face with God. Be right back.
Tags: It's Supernatural, Sid Roth
SID: We were talking earlier about the kingdom culture and how it affects family. But this is amazing. You had some foster kids that many have dubbed the four-week miracle. Tell me about that.
BILL: Yeah. We had two boys come to us. Their mother killed herself, I don’t remember how long before we got them. And then the father had him by himself for a season, and then he killed himself. There was a lot of abuse. You can imagine the condition that they were in emotionally and mentally. There was five brothers. We got two of them. And so we brought them into our home. The first meal, they grabbed all the food on the table, pulled it to themselves, because they had had to fight for everything. And so we assured them that, “Listen, there’ll be food here tomorrow. There will always be enough.” And over the next 24 hours or so they just began to sort that out and get healed up. Well, just a simple love and affirmation, care for them, within four weeks, it may have been three, but within four weeks, their counselor, their psychiatrist, whoever was working with them, said they didn’t need to come in anymore. So they had to come in to such a place of unusual peace in a middle of trauma that they didn’t need professional help anymore.
SID: I have to believe when a family operates in this love and kingdom culture, it permeates the whole home or anyone that comes into the home.
BILL: Absolutely. Absolutely right.
SID: I promised you that he had a second life-changing revelation we’ve never shared on this show. And it actually has to do with a revelation from a scripture. Tell me about that.
BILL: The one encounter was a power encounter. This one was revelatory. And that seems to be the ways that God moves on us often. And some people want the physical touch when God is actually speaking to their heart and mind about perception. I was reading Isaiah 60, verse 1, “Arise, shine. For your light has come. The glory of the Lord has risen upon you. For behold darkness will cover the earth, deep darkness the people, but his light will appear upon you. His glory will be seen upon you. Kings will come to your light and nations to the brightness of your rising.” I was reading. That’s the first three verses. But I was reading through Isaiah. And you know what it’s like. It’s like when you read something and God just breathes on it, it just seems to leap off the page. Even though I couldn’t have explained it to anyone, I didn’t have the insight to explain, yet I knew that this was life to me. I could feel the breath of God on those verses, “Arise, shine.” So I took that verse. I shared it to our church on Sunday. I said, “I feel like this is a word for us right now,” and the same thing happened to the entire room. I shared it another meeting. Other leaders were there. They said, “God has been saying the same word for us, ‘Arise, shine. For your light has come.'” There’s a posture of responsibility in radiating the presence and glory of God that every believer is supposed to take. And in many ways it is by choice. We stand on purpose. We rise, and we shine. But what he said is we arise and shine because his light has come. Jesus is the light that came into the world, John chapter 1, enlightened every person. There’s not another light coming. So we know that by that context that this is a present day word that the people of God are to rise because the glory of God will be seen upon us. Many people wait to rise, if I can use that place of faith or place of confidence, many people wait to rise until that glory is manifested. He is saying, “You rise, and the glory will be seen.
Audience: [applause, cheers]
BILL: I will answer your posture with heaven’s invasion. I’ll put my sign of presence upon you if you’ll take your right place.” And then he describes it as being at a time when deep darkness covers the earth. So there’s contrast. There’s difficulty, there’s challenges. But it’s in the midst of the difficulty that the people of God say, “Wait a minute, not on my shift. We’re not going to cower at the face of challenges. Instead we’re going to take our place.” The end result of that is nations come to your light and kings to the brightness of your rising. There has to be something happening with us that would make us the group that people in the world would want to come to. It’s the come of the Gospel, the contrast with the go of the Gospel. I go to a garden to pick fruit. I go a stream to drink water. In the same way, the reality of people reigning in Christ, living victoriously in life, knowing how to manage their relationships or conflicts, their finances, all these things, position us into a place where the glory of God’s purposes, the beauty of his kingdom becomes visible. And that becomes the very thing that draws people into the kingdom.
SID: But you know, the very first thing that is essential? This is what God’s word says in the original Greek, “This is eternal life, that you might have experiential knowledge of God.” I want you to make sure your sins are washed away and make sure that Jesus is living inside of you and make sure that you rise up to make him Lord. I want you to repeat this prayer after me, out loud. Studio audience, you at home, I want you to repeat this prayer and mean it to the best of your ability out loud. Dear God-
Audience: Dear God-
SID: … I’m a sinner-
Audience: … I’m a sinner-
SID: … for which I am so sorry.
Audience: … for which I am so sorry.
SID: I purposely-
Audience: I purposely-
SID: … turn from these sins.
Audience: … turn from these sins.
SID: But I need your grace-
Audience: But I need your grace-
SID: … to overcome them.
Audience: … to overcome them.
SID: And you are more than enough.
Audience: And you are more than enough.
SID: I believe-
Audience: I believe-
SID: … the blood of Jesus-
Audience: … the blood of Jesus-
SID: … has washed away these sins.
Audience: … has washed away these sins.
SID: And I am clean-
Audience: And I am clean-
SID: … and now that I am clean-
Audience: … and now that I am clean-
SID: … I, like King David-
Audience: … I, like King David-
SID: … lift holy hands to God.
Audience: … lift holy hands to God.
SID: They are holy-
Audience: They are holy-
SID: … because they’re under the blood.
Audience: … because they’re under the blood.
SID: And I boldly proclaim-
Audience: And I boldly proclaim-
SID: … that Jesus-
Audience: … that Jesus-
SID: … is my Lord and Savior.
Audience: … is my Lord and Savior.
SID: Lord Jesus-
Audience: Lord Jesus-
SID: … come inside of me.
Audience: … come inside of me.
SID: Take over my life.
Audience: Take over my life.
SID: Amen.
Audience: Amen.
Tags: It's Supernatural, Sid Roth