Art Thomas (1956) 2015

Sid: Hello Sid Roth here with Art Thomas. Now Art this is kind of stretching it a little, you’re wife is sick what was wrong with your wife and what did your 2 year old… are you stretching it a little?

Art: (Laughing) No no and I care very deeply about accuracy in reports and so this was a crazy one. My wife was playing with my two boys one’s 3½ at the time and the other was 2, and my 3½ year old jumped up from the floor and with his head popped my wife right in the nose and we heard this really loud pop and blood starts pouring out of her nose and instantly we knew okay her nose is broken. And before we could either say anything or do anything my 2 year old JJ runs over and said “You okay Mommy?” Puts his hand on her nose and says “Mommy be healed in Jesus name.” And the bleeding stops the pain stopped and there is no evidence whatsoever of my wife having a broken nose.

Sid: I have a hunch that now what is your son’s name again?

Art: JJ, Jeremiah James.

Sid:   Okay I have a hunch that Jeremiah James faith is sky high (Laughing).

Art: Yeah my boys see a lot of miracles happen even in our small group in our homes we have miracles happen about at least once a month it seems so we’ve had some amazing things that they’ve been able to witness. We just teach them to minister healing. You know one of them comes to us with a booboo and instead of “Hey can I kiss it?” It’s “Be healed in Jesus name how does that feel?” And they get healed pretty often. (Laughing)

Sid: Now you didn’t see anything happening really before 2009, now how many miracles would you say you’ve personally have observed?

Art: Yeah it’s got to be a rough estimate but roughly 3000 or more.

Sid: Could you picture if you had a church where each member saw 3000 miracles you wouldn’t have a building large enough to contain all of the people that would come. Now speaking of children, you were in Kenya speaking before 300 children what happened?

Art: Yeah this was on my very first trip to Africa in 2011. On our way back the man that I was staying with said “Hey I arranged a meeting at this school.” So I preached the gospel to these 300 kids that were probably 3rd through 5th grade in our type of schooling. And after preaching to them and telling them about Uganda and everything I saw I told them about these friends I had in Uganda who were kicked out of their Muslim families and became street children because they came to follow Jesus.” And I said “I can’t promise you that if you become a Christian everything will be wonderful but I can promise you that Jesus is worth it. And if you want to receive this Jesus I want you to stand up now,” and as far as I could tell all 300 of those kids stood up. And so they prayed through a prayer of salvation in their own language and we moved on. And I said “Now Jesus said ‘These signs will accompany those who believe.’ So how would you like to see what Jesus can do through you now that you believe?” And they were just you know on the edge of their seats “Yeah, yeah we want to see it.” And so I taught them about healing in about 5 minutes and after that I said “Now if you have eye problems, ear problems, pain in your body, sickness, disease.” And then I made the mistake of saying a bump, a scrape a bruise because every single kid in the room stood up.

Sid: Of course (Laughing).

Art: And then I was going to have those sitting pray for those standing and that was out of the question now. So I just said “Pair off 2 or 3 of you.” And taught them what to do put your hand where the problem is and say “Be healed in Jesus name and test it out.” And I got a little bit of video you know of these kids doing this and some of them were goofing off but it doesn’t say “These signs will accompany those that believe if they don’t goof off even” and you know. And after that I said I said “If you are healed if you can test it out and the pains gone the skins healed over you can see, you can hear or whatever it is if you’re healed I want you to sit down. If not stay standing because we’re going to minister again and about half of the room sat down. We did it a second time and about half of that group sat down and we did it a third time and everybody except 1 boy in the front row and when I watched the video I realized no one had prayed for him the 3rd time so it made sense. And I asked him “What’s your problem what happened to you?” And he said “It’s my eyes I can’t read so I laid hands on his eyes “Eyes open in Jesus name” opened up the Bible and he started reading. And so here was a room of 300 kids they’d only been saved for about 5 minutes and every single one of them ministered healing and was healed and we saw a 100% results.

Sid: No no Art you don’t understand when somebody gets saved they have to sit and learn for the next couple of years there’s no way that they can pray for the sick.

Art: (Laughing) Yeah that’s just a misconception that we held for so long and that was one of the things holding me back I kept thinking I had to have this or that added to my life before I could actually do something of value in the Kingdom. And I remember in Luke 9 Jesus sent out his 12 and then before the chapter even ends they’re arguing over who’s the greatest, they’re exclusive they told the guy not to minister in Jesus name. They were even murderess they wanted to call down fire on a village of Samaritan village that had rejected them. And you know I always thought well if I was Jesus at that point I would think twice about the caliber of people that I’m sending out in my name to represent me. But instead the very beginning of the next chapter Luke 10 he sends out 72 others. And then in the beginning of Luke 11 one of them even asked “Lord teach us to pray.” And so they weren’t even confident in their prayer lives yet, they had all of these character flaws and they were prideful and murderous and exclusive and yet Jesus was so interested in getting the commission accomplished. He just wanted people to go it was as if He was saying “Well work on your character along the way.” And I can testify to that that things have changed in my character faster while ministering to other people than if I had just sat around and waited to be perfect before I went out.

Sid: Well you know one of the things that I learned by watching from your video is I’m used to 1 quick prayer and go on to someone else. But I see most of your people they keep praying until they see results, now to me that was pretty unique there was a perseverance there that I haven’t seen before.

Art: Yeah in John 9 Jesus ministered to a blind man “What do you see?” The man said “I see people like trees walking around.” And Jesus didn’t pat him on the back and say “Yahoo partial healing” you know He…

Sid: (Laughing)

Art: You know He put the hands back on the man’s eyes and then his vision was fully restored. So I just tell people let’s go after this tenaciously like pit-bulls and just not expect someone to mystically randomly get healed throughout the week but let’s actually let Jesus see what He paid for now since now is the day of salvation.

Sid: Oh that reminds me of the story you talk about where someone a woman that was nearsighted tell me about that.

Art: Oh yeah again on my first trip in Uganda here I was in front of a church I had just taught them all to minister healing. I just wanted to demonstrate I just wanted them to see how it works. And I said “How many of you have eye problems?” And there was like 3 or 4 hands so just at random I picked this lady in the second row and brought her up and laid hands on her eyes and said “Eyes open in Jesus name.” And he opened up a Bible and any change?” And she said “No.” So I’ve learned it’s not magic words I don’t have to change it up I don’t have to find the right string of words to twist God’s arm so I just did the same thing over and over, eyes open in Jesus name, open the Bible “Any change, “No.” And this went on for about 15 minutes.

Sid: Yeah but I don’t know how you kept your audience.

Art: (Laughing) Well I didn’t.

Sid: (Laughing) Okay that answers that (Laughing).

Art: And at that moment when she left I realized I got to do something and so I turned to the congregation and said “Did Jesus pay for this woman to see?” And they all very…they waited (Laughing) even after it was translated and finally someone said “Yes.” And I said “Did He pay a very high price for this woman to see?” And they smiled and shook their heads “Yes.” And I said “Did it matter that I stand here and look like a fool in front of you speaking for Jesus to receive what He paid for?” And they just kind of smiled and laughed and I turned back to the woman “Eyes open in Jesus name any change?” “No.” Another 5 minutes goes by and suddenly she could read the large print headings at the top of the page and it was suddenly a slight relief because I want to see 100% but at least something was happening. “You see it’s starting to work I’m going to continue to ministering to her until we see 100% but you now see how this works you keep going for it so if you need healing come up to the front.” We had 10 people line up the rest of the congregation was the prayer team they came up and ministered to them. And I turned back to that woman put my hands on her eyes and “Eyes open in Jesus name” opened the Bible and she was completely healed. So she went to sit down and I said “Where are you going?” “To sit down.” And I said “No, no, no you come over here and pray for someone.” And so she sheepishly came over and prayed for the one man who no one was ministering to yet. And it just so happens it was an elderly man who was completely blind and out of that line of 10 people she was the first one healed that she was praying for and I didn’t pray for any of them but every single one of the was healed.

Sid: Now you teach something that I think is worth people listening to this interview just this one thing I’m going to have you talk about. When you pray for someone and they’re not healed most people’s faith diminishes and that’s not what happens to our Thomas what happens to you?

Art: Yeah I like to say every time I minister again I’m stepping into a new level of faith.

Sid: How do you step into a new level of faith when you pray for someone and they die of cancer? Give me a break? (Laughing)

Art: It’s very practical because you know how James says “Abraham was justified by faith.” But it was really laying Isaac on the altar that act of faith it was putting it’s faith into action that brought him…that made him righteous. And so I realized that just the simple act of ministering to the sick is faith in itself. And so here I am it takes a little measure of trust to say “Be healed in Jesus name.” But if it doesn’t happen it takes more faith for me to now ignore that it didn’t happen to speak to it again as though I’d just seen a 1000 miracles. And I just continue to do it every time I speak to it again I know that I’m stepping into a new level of faith because I’m ignoring one more time that it didn’t work.

Sid: You know what some people’s mind just went tilt on what you just said would you say it again? I mean this is so good (Laughing)

Art: Every time I step into…everything I speak into a condition again I am having to ignore one more time when it didn’t work. And that’s a higher stack of things to ignore than it was the last time which means I am acting on more faith. The very act of me saying “Be healed in Jesus name” is an act of faith and the more I do it the greater my actual faith becomes until that mustard seed pops up and moves a mountain.

Sid: Okay give me some practical advice. I have prayed over the years, many different times, that my eyes be healed and I not have to wear glasses and I have an idea I am not alone. But if you watch me on television I’m wearing glasses; what advice would you give me?

Art: Number 1 be healed in Jesus name.

Sid: (Laughing) come on now give me more.

Art: Look around see if there’s any change.

Sid: Oh you’re really going for it aren’t you “Do I see any change?”

Art: Look around.

Sid: I see perfect with my glasses, oh my Producers saying take my glasses off.

Art: Exactly.

Sid: Well I took my glasses off but my whole headphone came off too okay.

Art: No problem (Laughing).

Sid: Now now you have to pray for my headphone, no I’m teasing.

Art: (Laughing)

Sid: Now this is a good test I’m looking at my notes and I can’t read them and I need something more. And by the way am I discouraging you when I’m saying this, what’s going on inside of you? Am I discouraging you because I’m kidding you and I can’t see anything?

Art: (Laughing) see I’ve learned that if you were healed instantly the glory is not mine I have to take that to Jesus and say “Here this belongs to You.” If you’re not healed instantly then the burdens not mine and I say “Here this belongs to You.” So there is a sort of disconnect from the glory or the burden either way I can continue to just trust Jesus and walk in faith and it doesn’t change what’s true. Right? And I also tell people “You’re doing everything right like Jesus raised the dead a dead person doesn’t even have to figure out how to receive (Chuckling) you know just be dead. So you’re doing everything right instead what I do I say alright we as a body of Christ are growing into this thing. We want to see 100% results like they had Acts chapter 5 when they were all meeting together in Solomon’s colony and then a few verses later it says “Every sick and injured person that came to them was healed. So we as the body of Christ it is for us to carry together and we want to see results and we contend for it. So practical advice I’d say alright I just aimed for it you know if Jesus…

Sid: Now is it my lack of faith that I wear glasses?

Art: No.

Sid: No.

Art: I never put it on the person because when the epileptic boy wasn’t healed Jesus didn’t pin it on the epileptic boy, he didn’t pin it on that boy’s father who obvious said…

Sid: So who’s lack of faith is it if it’s not mine?

Art: (Laughing) Matthew 17 the disciples asked Him “Why couldn’t we do what You can do?” And Jesus turned to them and said “Because you have so little faith.” And so for me as a minister, and mind you this is for all the body of Christ to carry he didn’t single out one of the disciples He said to them collectively He said “You have so little faith.” But if I never asked the personal question “Lord why couldn’t I do it?” And I never let Him shape me and correct me about 1/3 of the time I get an answer you know. And if that doesn’t happen then we collectively never will grow into it. And so one of the reasons I was able to write a book and make a movie and have all of this revelation on healing is because every time I try and it doesn’t work I go to Jesus and say “Why couldn’t I do what You could have done?” And again I get a response about a ¼ to a 1/3…

Sid: And you don’t take condemnation either I see.

Art: Now what so ever like I said the glories not mine and the burdens not mine cast your burdens on Jesus. If I walked around depressed because people didn’t get healed I be…

Sid: Is this God’s will that everyone be healed do you really believe that?

Art: I sincerely do you know Jesus paid the same price for salvation, for forgiveness as He paid for healing. And there’s multiple verses where forgiveness are mentioned together James 5, Isaiah 53, Psalm 103. And even the paralytic lowered through the roof “Your sins are forgiven and then to prove that I have the authority to forgive sins get up take your mat.” Jesus put the authority for forgiveness and for healing in the same context otherwise that wouldn’t have been proof. So there is never going to be…I’ve found that I can answer most of my questions about God’s will to heal if I just replace the word healing with forgiveness. So if there ever come a time that a sinner comes to Jesus and says “Lord forgive me.” And He said “I’m sorry I’m building character in you with this sin and once that’s complete I’ll forgive you.” You know it’s nonsense when we think of it that way Jesus decided to forgive 2000 years ago and He also decided to heal 2000 years ago. 1st John 2:2 said “He died for not only our sins but also for the sins of the whole world.” And that doesn’t mean that everyone’s saved but everyone is paid for and that’s the same thing for healing. Everyone is paid for His blood has power today there’s no reason for me to think that His blood is less affective and that God would contradict Himself He made a very powerful decision when He send His Son to the cross.

Sid: Okay explain to our listeners right now the DVD and the book, explain what they are.

Art: Yeah the DVD we wanted to make a movie my friend James was a film music score major at a local university and for his final project he wanted a movie that his class would have to watch in order for him to get a grade. Me being an evangelist I’m all over that let’s do it. And what started out as this little tiny class project to help a friend suddenly exploded into having these interviews with people that were phenomenal interviews and we had more material than we knew what to do with and cranked it down to as tight of a movie that we took the best of the best of the best footage the best advice. And we showed miracles happening we had lots of discussion about that, and then at the back of the movie about the last half hour all of these 30 or so people we interviewed we asked them for their most practical advice about healing ministry. Then we pulled all of that together and presented a training at the end of this film. So it’s not a documentary in the true sense it’s actually an activation type movie.

Sid: Well it’s not just activation you pray for the sick at the end of the movie and are you getting many people that say that they’re getting healed from watching the movie?

Art: Yeah like I said we’ve had lots of results with people getting healed while watching the film so it’s been amazing.

Sid: What about churches that are pretty much burned out they don’t see anything they’re Spirit filled, they believe in healing but they don’t see much going on has this reactivated them?

Art: Absolutely in fact there is a church in Montana that wrote to me and the pastor said “You know we have people in our church who used to minister healing all of the time but the truth is healing ministry there tends to be an emotional weight just as I explained how I’m not carrying the burden I recognize that the burden is real.” You know when someone close to you dies of cancer and you know that somehow the healing power of Jesus is bottled up inside of you and you couldn’t get it out to them that’s heavy for you to carry it hurts your heart and people got discouraged and they gave up. And this pastor said “After watching your movie, after going through the study they have jumped back into this with more enthusiasm than they’ve ever had. So it’s pretty powerful seeing that happen.

Sid: ….Can you picture what would happen Art if entire churches got activated with this?

Art: Oh yeah I can not only picture it I’ve seen if happen.

Sid: When we come back I’m going to Art pray for you if that’s okay.

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