SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world, where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest was just having basic surgery, and he left his body and there was someone by him. That someone was Jesus, and he received an importation and revelation from God. This is what he was told, every person that knows the Lord has a God package inside of them, and as you listen to my guest speak, you will get revelation of your God package. The more you listen to him speak, the more revelation, and you cannot accomplish your destiny unless you know what God has packaged inside of you, and I am believing that everyone is going to get revelation right now. My guest was having an ento procedure. This was back in ’92, and this is the first time he’s been given permission to share what happened in a public venue. Kevin, the presence of God since that point has been so strong on you that I just pray you’re able to get through this interview.
KEVIN: I agree.
SID: But, Kevin, you were having this procedure and you found yourself outside of your body, and there was someone there with you. Tell me about it.
KEVIN: When I first realized that I was out of my body, I, at first, was alarmed. I looked around and I thought, “I’ll tell the doctor,” so the surgeon was working on me. I’ll just point at him and tell him …
SID: You were pointing to the doctor doesn’t know that you’re dead.
SID: No pulse. He’s got to bring you back.
KEVIN: He wouldn’t listen to me, so I walked over and I poked him, and he still didn’t think that I was that serious about it, so I went to the nurse and then the nurse ignored me, too, so I went to the anesthesiologist and she did the same thing, and so I put my hands up in the air and I thought, “Well, this is it.” All of a sudden, my body started to glow on the table, and I transformed into my resurrection body. I said to myself, “I look beautiful.”
Jesus: You look like that to me all the time.
SID: Your resurrection body, you will look beautiful. Did you look better than you do now?
KEVIN: Yes, Sid. I was astounded. I heard a man’s voice that was not accounted for in the room. He said, “Well, that’s what you look like to me all the time,” and I turned around and it was Jesus, and so I walked up to him and he met me right there in the center of the operating room.
SID: Kevin is a flight attendant. You told me, one particular day, how many people did you witness to and they came to the Lord?
KEVIN: I started in the morning out of Florida, and by the time I got to New Orleans at night, I had witnessed to forty-one people, and they had been weeping as I’d walk by in the aisle and laughing, and I asked them what was wrong and they said, “Every time you walk by there’s some sort of presence on you.” Before you know it, I was witnessing to four rows in the airplane about my visitation, and they all started crying. I’ve seen things like that happen.
SID: I wish you were my flight attendant, I can tell you that. Kevin, Jesus taught you something, and it’s in the Bible, but it just really spoke to me about the power of words.
KEVIN: Yes. Initially, he wanted to teach me, so he started teaching me. It was amazing. He walked up to me and he said, “You know, in Matthew 12:36, I said that you will be held accountable for every word that comes out of your mouth.
Jesus: You will be held accountable for every word that comes out of your mouth.
KEVIN: Then he just stared at me. I started to feel a little convicted, because I was a talker, and I felt like I needed to make an adjustment inside, and so he walked up to my ear and he whispered. He goes, “You know I meant that, don’t you?”
Jesus: You know I meant that, don’t you?
KEVIN: Then he smiled at me. He began to teach me …
SID: What do his eyes look like?
KEVIN: His eyes have a really deep, and inside I could see my destiny. In fact, I could see inside his eyes the moment that he thought of me and breathed me out, and I went into my mother’s womb.
SID: My goodness.
KEVIN: Yes. And he’s full of fire, too. His eyes are full of fire.
SID: But he meant what he said about idle, inoperative, unnecessary, let alone gossip, words.
SID: You, also, looked at your body and you saw something black over you. Tell me about that.
KEVIN: The next step in the teaching that he did for me was he asked me to turn around and look at my body again, which was really bright and transformed.
Jesus: Turn around and look at your body.
KEVIN: All of sudden now there was a black vest obscuring my beauty from my neck down to my stomach area. I inquired of the Lord, “What is this,” and he said, “Take a look closer. If you’ll look really close.”
Jesus: If you look really close, it’s all the words spoken against you that were not true.
KEVIN: “I’ll show you what it is,” and it was all the words that were spoken against me and that were not true, and had formed a vest. There were so many. It looked like newspaper print, but there were words, and he said, “These words that people spoke, they were not your destiny, and we need to take care of this.”
Jesus: These words that people spoke, they are not your destiny. We need to take care of this.
SID: We believe almost anything anyone says. If we had as much faith in the written word of God as we do on what these nobodies say to us, and if what they say does not line up with the word of God … I had a prophet come to me one time and tell me I had a dread disease. I’m so glad I didn’t believe him. I’m so glad I rejected it. I heard of another man who was told … One day a spirit came to him and said, “You’re going to die today.” I’m glad he rebuked that spirit. He lived another fifty years. Let every man be a liar, but God’s word is true. Then, Kevin, Jesus said, “I’m going to share with you the one most supernatural thing that you can do, but very few of my children do it,” that will so throw them into the supernatural more than anything else available when I come back.
SID: Our spirit is saved instantly. But you believe it takes a lifetime to work out your salvation.
APOSTLE MALDONADO: The soul is being transformed, being changed and being delivered. In other words, it’s not instant. Our spirit is being saved. The Holy Spirit lives there. So that’s what I don’t believe. A Christian can’t be possessed by a demon, but can be influenced in some areas. For example, I’ve been in a place when the Lord said to me, “I want you to call every person that is sick in their body and the doctors cannot find the cause of that sickness.” Usually, Sid, when that happens is a demon because they don’t have any detectors, supernatural detectors to say it’s a demon. Doctors can say that. Unless you have discernment, you can’t discern if it’s a demon. So usually when I rebuke the spirit of sickness the person is instantly healed.
SID: You say that we should start acting like Jesus. How did Jesus act?
APOSTLE MALDONADO: Well Jesus acted as the Son of God, anointed by the Holy Spirit. He left behind his Glory. Now he’s acting in the power of God. But we all, every believer has the power and the authority to cast out demons because so many people are afraid. No, I’m afraid.
SID: Why are people so afraid of demons?
APOSTLE MALDONADO: Because there’s a tradition in theology and doctrines that if you lay hands on people that demon will jump on you. Wait a minute, greater is he that is in me that is in the world. Let’s go to the scripture. The Lord has given us, Sid, and those people that are watching, the Lord has given us power, the ability, Divine ability, and God has given us the authority: Luke 10:19, Matthew 28:19. In other words, we got both. We got the ability and we got the legal right, the authorization to use the power. Any believer has the power and the authority to cast out demons. You don’t have to be a superstar.
SID: Right now, I want you, there are people that they’re believers, but they’re not free. I want you to pray a prayer for freedom for those that are watching. I want you to pray it. We have a large number of prayer requests. Let’s hold on to this and you pray for freedom for people watching and these people to be healed.
APOSTLE MALDONADO: Father, in the name of Jesus, can we start praying in the Holy Spirit. Father, in the name of Jesus, I thank you, Father. I release that anointing for deliverance, freedom, those that are bound, those that are addicted to alcohol, those that are addicted to food, those that are addicted in depression and oppression. In the name of Jesus, right now I set you free. Any spirit of sickness in their bodies, be healed, be delivered right now. Go in the name of Jesus. I see somebody trying to commit suicide. God is delivering you now. I see somebody that is, you’ve been in depression for 15 years. You’ve taken medication. God is setting you free in the name of Jesus. God is doing something very powerful. There is someone struggling with alcohol. You’re struggling with alcohol. God is setting you free. In the name of Jesus, the anointing is destroying the yoke right now. Be free in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen and amen.
SID: Do you realize you are God’s ambassador and as an ambassador you need to be fully equipped. And anything in the book, it’s yours. Every promise in that book, it’s yours. If Jesus is your Messiah and Lord, and if he’s not, tell him you’re sorry for your sins, ask him to cleanse you by his blood, and come live inside of you and take over your life. Say, thank you, Lord Jesus.
SID: Now you say that God’s word is simple, practical and powerful.
APOSTLE MALDONADO: I believe, Sid, that it’s simple when you understand you have power and authority, when you understand and get the revelation who you are in God. As a believer, as it said in the beginning, the power of God is not based on personality. The power of God is based on truth. If you know the Word, if you know the truth you will do miracles. I’ve seen all kinds of people, young people, adults, moving in miracles and they don’t have any gift because the tradition is well you have to have a gift. Well if you got the truth that’s enough to do miracles.
SID: You mean, tell me about a transfer of this resurrection power. Tell me about Reverend Paul from India and the nurse with the brain tumor.
APOSTLE MALDONADO: This pastor came from India. As he was activated I laid hands on him. I speak the word, he got the impartation. He went back to India and a woman, her baby died and I called him, as soon as he got from Miami to India.
Man: And I said God is going to raise her up. And I began to pray for her in the telephone, and I began to call out and said, “In the name of Jesus, come back to life. I come against every spirit of death in the name of Jesus.” And I prayed and I hanged the phone.
APOSTLE MALDONADO: So he prayed to rebuke the spirit of death. Her baby came back to life. So now, Sid, this is not a person, he’s not known. He got a nice size church, but it’s not known. Again, we’re going back into Mark 16:15. If we preach the word, do we believe the resurrection, do you believe Jesus is alive now. See, what happened is if you ask me a question why the church is not moving in miracles, I would say that we preach an historical God. Miracles doesn’t happen in the past, miracles doesn’t happen in the future, miracles happen now.
SID: Tell me about the nurse with the brain tumor.
APOSTLE MALDONADO: She was healed. It was a terminal disease and she’s watching me by television, and she was healed. She was delivered. And then now she came to one my schools. She was activated and went back. And there’s a baby that died in the hospital, and she said, “I rebuke the spirit of death.” And that baby came back to life.
SID: This nurse works with babies that are not expected to live and she has this miracle anointing. And people are getting this over the TV. They’re having their own miracles over television. You told me that God spoke to you that there was a portal opening for creative miracles. Tell me about that.
APOSTLE MALDONADO: Okay. The Lord spoke to me. He said, “You’ve been seeing.” He gave me a foretaste of those creative miracles. I saw a lot of creative miracles. I saw deliverance, the whole thing on the supernatural. But in this time he said, “There’s a portal open over your ministry and for you to impart to my people.” That’s the key, because again, we’re not talking about celebrity. We’re talking about the people, any believer moving in the supernatural. So I saw the shift in it. I saw the shift and whenever you see somebody that’s missing a breast and the breast grew back, and whenever you see flesh and bones growing, a kidney, it’s powerful. So I saw the shift and the amount, and the creative in it.
SID: All right. Last month you were in Argentina. Tell me what you saw with your eyes.
APOSTLE MALDONADO: One of my churches in Argentina, 27,000 people in the stadium. And then suddenly the Spirit of God said, “You are to minister creative ministers.” And I just prayed like two or three minutes because the portal on my life, that portal created the realm, the realm of creative. So I just prayed. I said, “God, create miracles” and I released it. Sid, we documented. It took 15 minutes, 15 minutes.
SID: Fifteen minutes.
APOSTLE MALDONADO: Fifteen minutes to have in the altar the first testimony and then we have a line of people. And then we counted. We got doctors and our people, 60 creative new organs. The first lady, she was standing, and the first lady, she said, “Oh my God, my breasts,” she said, “my breasts were removed because of cancer.” And there’s another lady, she said, “My God, adrenal gland,” she said had been removed. And she had a hole here. And she said, “I didn’t have the eardrum. I was born without it. I couldn’t hear.” So suddenly, she starts screaming, “I can hear! I can hear!” And she said, “I don’t have the hole anymore. The Lord put the gland in.” And just like that, 60 miracles. God will do it to those people that are watching.
SID: You told me that was all you had time to document. There are many more.
APOSTLE MALDONADO: Oh yes. We got lines and lines of people waiting. And God will do it for those people that are watching. Are you ready for it?
SID: Jesus used the casting out of demons to announce, that was his advertising. He didn’t have the Internet and all the things we have today. But he had something more powerful. He used the casting out of demons to illustrate the fact that the Kingdom of God has come on Earth. Now I’m taking you back many years, Guillermo. Early in your ministry, you, like myself, like everyone, had many questions. You would wonder why people who were believers were addicted to things like pornography and alcohol, and things like that, where people would have fears, unreasonable fears they couldn’t shake. He had all these questions and God answered you.
APOSTLE MALDONADO: The answer was that there was a missing ingredient. Even in my leadership I didn’t see the church in the ministry grow. And the Lord said the missing ingredient is the ministry of deliverance.
SID: For some people this is kind of new because that whole ministry, which was the thing Jesus emphasized, has been set aside. Would you define for me deliverance.
APOSTLE MALDONADO: Deliverance is a permanent removing of influences and demonic oppressions from the person, either from the mind, emotions, and will from the soul, is removing, is the removal of those things, especially believers. And I believe Jesus ministers four stages: preaching, teaching, healing and casting out demons. Today we do preaching and teaching, not healing, a little bit, and casting out demons, no, we don’t want to do it. And how come we can identify with the ministry of the Jesus? I would not be ashamed to do the deliverance. I was not ministering deliverance. I was just preaching the Kingdom because when you preach the Kingdom the sign of the preaching of the Kingdom is the casting out demons. So there’s a confrontation, there’s a conflict between two kingdoms. And believers are manifesting and being delivered.
SID: I have heard people say Christians can’t have demons.
APOSTLE MALDONADO: Well they cannot be possessed. Possession and demonization is totally different. There’s two terms. Possession is ownership. Demonization is influence.
SID: Didn’t Jesus cast out a spirit of infirmity?
APOSTLE MALDONADO: Yes, that’s what I’m saying. There’s influence. But I’m ministering in this church and I see people being delivered, and he cut me off. And I said, “Listen, Jesus’ blood paid for that person to be delivered.”
SID: Find out more when we come back.
SID: Now this revelation, God is good, Bill, you said God is better than we think. What did you mean by that?
BILL: Well you can’t exaggerate God’s goodness. It’s impossible. If I could comprehend his goodness, I would be God, not him. He is far beyond everything we can possibly imagine, and so we have to, in our experience with his goodness, in that invitation to Divine encounter, as that increases in our life, we have to adjust our thinking. That’s really what repentance means. Repentance means to change the way you think.
BILL: It’s the remorse over sin, obviously, but it has to affect how I perceive reality. And that’s what the Lord is looking for.
SID: So what happens, and you can’t stop the devil from planting thoughts. He plants a negative thought about God in your head. What goes on inside of you when that happens?
BILL: Well you replace it with truth. I don’t give it much attention, to be honest with you. I don’t want to flatter the enemy with success and feeling successful in anything. So I really work hard to give him as little attention as possible and just to feed myself with truth. I may prophesy. I may declare something true. I may declare a scripture that contradicts what the enemy said. Often times I’ll just sing a song of praise. I’ll sing spontaneously to the Lord in the very area that the enemy questions. If it’s an area about not having enough for this next month or something, I praise God for his abundance. And that’s just what I do, is I go against what the enemy has done and do it with truth. Truth brings life.
SID: Why is there such a conflict over this term, the goodness of God?
BILL: Because it’s key to the Last Days’ harvest. If the enemy can mess us up on our view of God then he has injured our capacity to represent the goodness of a perfect father.
SID: Can you prove that in Scripture that it has to do with the End Time revival?
BILL: Yes, absolutely. Hosea 3:5 says, “In the last days the people will fear God because of his goodness.”
SID: I like that. How about you?
BILL: Psalm 67 is actually my most favorite passage on this area because it ends with nations coming to Christ. And it’s through the process of the goodness of God being revealed upon his people.
SID: I think it must be the devil that tries to rob us of our destiny by challenging the goodness of God.
BILL: If we question his goodness, we’ll question his promise. If we question his promise, we’ve undermined our own destiny.
SID: It’s just coming to our senses that God is good.
BILL: Yes. Faith, real faith, doesn’t deny the existence of a problem. It just denies that problem a place of influence. It’s not living in denial. It’s not living as the ostrich, ignoring all the difficulties that are going on. It’s just seeing them through the eyes of hope, seeing them through the intentions of purposes of a perfect father. When you taste of his goodness and you see that it is absolutely 100 percent constant then everything becomes redefined by that goodness.
SID: Okay. You told me that Jesus is your model. Jesus is my model. Jesus is your model. Would you—I heard people with neck and back problems. It’s like chiropractors are going to get so jealous of you. You’re going to be healed right now in Jesus’ name.—Bill, would you pray?
BILL: Yes, absolutely. I have the sense arthritic conditions, specifically in the neck that have been really crippling, there’s a lot of pain that shoots up into the head as a result of this and the Lord is bringing healing. I believe he’s doing a creative miracle and restoring damaged vertebrae in the neck from the base of the skull all the way to the top of the back, the upper portion of the back. The Lord is also healing deafness, and specifically somebody that’s completely deaf in the right ear. We’ve seen the Lord heal people with a severed nerve to the ear where there’s no possibility of hearing again because of that. And I’ve got a sense that today is going to restore that once again. We talked earlier about pancreatic cancer and the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Whenever you talk about a miracle that God has done he’s actually prophesying and declaring to us he is present and he’s ready to do the miracle again. And I just sense that you bringing that up today is underscoring the fact that God wants to set people completely, totally 100 percent free from now on and forever from pancreatic cancer. So I declare the release, the deliverance of that spirit of infirmity on the body right now in the name of Jesus. There’s somebody who has a serious issue with the kidneys and I think specifically the right kidney. There is ongoing pain. I think there’s infection, that sort of thing, but I think there’s a deeper problem with disease in that kidney. I believe the Lord is restoring that. He does creative miracles. He makes all things new and that comes right out of his heart, right out of his goodness. So I declare that over you in Jesus’ name. I believe that there are learning disorders, dyslexia, other issues of the brain that God is healing. There is somebody that has some sort of an infection and some sort of an issue with the blood vessel. I forget what it’s called, forgive me, but there’s something to do with the brain that has caused very serious, serious problems for them. But we see Jesus heal this regularly and I believe that he is doing that right now. He is declaring healing over dyslexia, over learning disorders, trauma to the brain. There are people who have lost use of limbs because of a blow to the head. Some the ability to concentrate, to think clearly, to work with math or geography, all those things, have disappeared from your life because of a head trauma. And Jesus himself is restoring that part of your brain. We just break that assignment of the enemy to allow trauma to continuously afflict you with loss. And I declare in Jesus’ name trauma leaves now and Jesus himself restores what was stolen. He is the God who restores. And he doesn’t just restore back to what it was, he restores always to a place greater than before. I just declare that healing word. I believe he’s healing food allergies, very serious food allergies. We’ve seen people just literally stand in proxy to representing their child who couldn’t eat wheat or drink milk, and immediately after the meeting go home and have pizza, and watch the Lord has completely healed the child. I feel like the Lord is just healing some of those issues of the digestive system. The Lord says food was created for us to enjoy and to offer thanks for. And so when we get robbed of not being able to eat what he’s provided for us it’s the work of the enemy. It’s not God. It’s not just well that’s just life. It’s not life. It’s death and it’s not a part of God’s destiny for you. I believe the Lord is releasing a healing throughout the colon, the entire intestinal area, colitis, Crohn’s disease. We see that just lift off of people. So we just declare once again Jesus’ name, Jesus is the one who heals and delivers people from Crohn’s disease, colitis, all these afflictions of the intestinal system, digestive system. We declare that in the mighty, mighty name of Jesus. There’s somebody who has an infection in behind the right eye and the Lord is restoring that sight to you. I believe in that case it’s going to begin gradually. As soon as you notice the progress, give thanks. Don’t wait for the full manifestation because whatever we give thanks for increases. The loaves and fishes multiplied after Jesus gave thanks. And I believe there are some of you that are going to see the beginning of a miracle. Give thanks then because that’s the atmosphere in which things increase in the Kingdom.
SID: And Bill and I agree for a hundred percent trust that, say it with me, God is good.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. I have seen my guest Bill Johnson stand in front of a group of people and I have seen so many miracles erupt. But Bill has told me that the greatest revelation he has ever been given for miracles, for you to fulfill your destiny, he’s ready to reveal right now and I promise you if you grab hold of this it will be the most important revelation for all the promises of God in your life. You ready to grab hold? Well actually, this revelation is so simple I can say it in three words, but it’s not an intellectual thing. It’s a supernatural revelation and if you just get in your head that will be good, but not good enough to activate the promises of God, not good enough to fulfill your destiny. So Bill, we’re on the edge of our seats. What’s the revelation?
BILL: God is good.
SID: Have you ever heard [that] before? God is good. Why is this such an important revelation to you? I mean, you spent over two decades known as someone that moves in the miraculous. I mean, the miracles that happen is, I mean, it’s phenomenal. I mean, it’s normal according to the Bible, but it’s phenomenal according to most people.
BILL: What you know about God changes you. It defines your purpose. It defines your destiny. It shapes how you live. It shapes how you think most of all. Everything comes from your perspective on life. And the way you view God changes everything that you see about life itself on Planet Earth, what’s God’s assignment for our life. When we see he is good all revelation comes as an invitation for encounter. None of it is given to us just to make us smarter, just to increase our intellectual capacity. All of it is an invitation to encounter God in that area. So he says taste and see that the Lord is good. Taste is an experience. See is perception. You’ll perceive more clearly what you can experience and the Lord is inviting us to see and to taste, and to perceive his goodness on a whole different level.
SID: You actually, I mean, this is a strong statement, you call it the cornerstone of all theology. Why would you say that?
BILL: Yes, it is. Everything comes from the goodness of God. Everything about him, he is as good as he is Holy. His love, of course, he is love. But that goodness of God, I think is the root system that everything comes from. And when you see that, when that becomes settled in my heart then there are things that I used to question that would happen, that I no longer question because I see everything is defined by his goodness. It’s not, his goodness isn’t defined by circumstances. It’s the other way around. And just seeing that brings a rest to my heart so that I can trust him in all situations. The enemy’s whole thing is wanting me to become introspective. He wants me to be wrapped up in evaluating what I’m doing. And especially for those who have a great passion to know God, to live like Jesus, be like Jesus, it’s an easy trap to fall into because when I look inward, I’m not looking where faith will increase. I actually look where faith will diminish because I become more self-reliant than I am God-reliant. So the Lord longs for us to turn our attention towards him. It’s not that the issues of life that he’s dealing with aren’t important. They are, but he is dealing with them, not us. He is dealing with them and as we look to him we come into a place of rest, and faith comes out of rest, not striving. It’s not the result of works, it’s the result of surrender. And when that is our approach to our relationship with God, faith is much more normal and natural.
SID: You said something a little earlier. You said that God is good, and your heart is settled.
SID: But we have many people that are questioning a lot of things. How can we get where you are and where I am? In fact, even more important, why is it so important to get there?
BILL: Well it’s vital because it changes who you are. It changes your perception on life. And if I mistake God’s nature I will mistake how I live. It’s the whole statement that’s made. Whatever you misdiagnose you will mistreat. And so you’ll always try to answer questions that people are asking. You’ll always try to solve problems [thinking] that really God is not working or he’s taking a different approach on, and so we become people who work extremely hard, but very, very ineffective, because everything comes out of the goodness of God. It’s a vital thing to perceive because it changes how we view, even things we don’t understand, it changes mystery. It changes loss. It changes the questions that we have. I have more questions than I’ve ever had. It’s not that my knowledge increases where I’ve got all these answers. It’s just I have the answers I need and the answer I need is that he is 100 percent always good and he is a perfect Father. Jesus came to reveal him as Father. The greatest revelation that Jesus brought to us is really unveiled to us constantly in the Gospel of John is that Jesus is a father and he’s a perfect father. He came to a planet of orphans to reveal the Father as Father. And once that becomes settled then I may not know the answer to this problem or this challenge, but I know I’m approaching God who is good, who has already worked on my behalf to bring out a right solution.
SID: You know what, Bill, if you knew the answer to everything that would make you God. And have you found out there’s a whole lot we don’t understand. That’s what makes us human.
BILL: Yes, that’s right.
SID: This word trust is such an important word. You were in Brazil speaking and you got a call no son ever wants to get. You have meetings and miracles are going on, and you get a phone call. What were you informed?
BILL: I got a call that my dad had had what we thought was going to be a minor procedure. When they opened him up they found that he had pancreatic cancer, which is one of the worst kinds of cancer you can have. I was there with my really dear friend Randy Clark, joining him.
SID: Now you have two great miracle ministries and your own dad calls, and he has an impossible situation. Just out of curiosity, what went through your mind when he said that to you?
BILL: It’s time for a miracle. It’s time for a miracle. So I got released from Randy to fly home immediately. I caught the next flight out and flew home, and then over the next several months spent many, many times ministering to him, praying for him, away from him as well in prayer, and just contending for that breakthrough, for that miracle.
SID: But you didn’t have a miracle.
BILL: No. No.
SID: So your dad died. What are your conclusions?
BILL: You know, I don’t ask God why on these things. I just know he didn’t cause the disease. I know he’s big enough to use any problem, so he can turn any situation around, for his glory. And it’s a win-win in this kind of a situation because my dad is a powerful man of God. He’s a believer. To go home with the Lord, to remain on earth with us, to help us, it’s a win-win situation. So that part is settled. As far as—
SID: How about the part of “God is good.” Is that really settled with you when your dad dies?
BILL: Yes, it is. The Lord wasn’t really speaking to me about that then. But I will admit I’ve had to learn more about the goodness of God since that loss than all the years previous. It was something he was already working on in me to show me, but it really exploded after that. When my dad died we gathered around his bed. He was there in our home. We had our entire family. I forget now, 20 to 30 members surrounded his bed, and we began to give God thanks. We began to honor him for his goodness. We began to give him praise because he is the one who heals the sick. He raises the dead. He does all these things. And we just lifted our praise because I wanted…I know that in Heaven I’ll never have a chance to give God an offering out of loss, out of pain, out of confusion. I’ll never have that context in which to give him an offering in Heaven. I only have a chance to give that to him now. So as a family, we grabbed our moment. We made a covenant to walk in the anointing that my dad carried, which is primarily as a worshiper, and we made a covenant as a family to carry that mantle, and then we just offered up an offering. It was a sacrifice, but we offered the sacrifice of praise for his goodness, and it unlocked something for me.
SID: I’m going to tell you what it would do for me. What it would do for me, I would go after cancer, I would go after heart trouble, I would go after diabetes with a vengeance.
BILL: Exactly. You either run away from it in reaction to your pain, to your loss, or you run after it. It’s like David picking up the stones and running at Goliath. Cancer has been the Goliath in the church, and we’ve got to pick up the stones and run at the problem instead of avoiding it. I agree.
SID: Did you see an increase in the miraculous?
BILL: Yes. It was not immediately, like the next week or two weeks. Because I believe there’s an important season of mourning. Mourning that’s wrong takes you to unbelief. Mourning that’s right brings you to a place of receiving comfort and healing, and that’s what we did. We just took a brief time to mourn until we felt that things were settled in our heart and then began to pursue. And yes, so we’ve been seeing that.
SID: You told me that your model is Jesus.
SID: What was, what did you learn from your model about healing, not necessarily with your dad, but what did Jesus model about healing?
BILL: Just in general, he healed everyone who came to him, number one, and he healed everyone the Father sent him to. He did not heal everyone who was sick, who was alive, because we know he healed the one man at the pool of Bethesda and there were many others around the pool. Tragically, our theology today tends to be built around what didn’t happen instead of what God did do. But Jesus healed everyone who came to him, healed everyone that the Father directed him to. That’s the only standard that I’m willing to follow.
SID: So will you lower your standard any because of what happened?
BILL: Well I can’t. I can’t. I may do horrible at my assignment, but I can’t change my assignment so that I feel good about myself. I have to accept the assignment God gave me, [which] is the standard that Jesus set. I have to embrace that. I can’t lower the standard of Scripture to my level of experience. I’m spending my lifetime trying to raise my level of experience to the standard of Scripture.
SID: How would you like me to turn Bill Johnson loose as payback time on what happened to his dad? Anyone interested? Be right back