Sid: My guest Dr. Peter Gammons who’s the senior pastor at Cathedral of Faith in Orlando, Florida. We’re talking about his newly re-published book “Israel in Prophecy,” literally written for such a time as this. We were talking on yesterday’s broadcast that exact dates are mentioned when it comes to the nation Israel. For instance, in chapter 4 which talks about the liberation of Canaan, you quote to the exact year from Daniel 12 verse 12 what will happen. Explain that.
Peter: Yeah, it’s amazing. The question is asked “When will this liberation take place?” The answer comes back in Daniel 12 verse 12 “Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.” Now in Bible times a day often is used in the context via to a day context. Time and time again that happens throughout scripture. The Daily Commentary by Scripture Union Volume 214 points this out “This remarkable book Daniel ends with figures and dates that are not easy to decipher. One at least is absolutely literal, or else the most curious coincidence in history. This is the figure in verse 12 of 1,335 days. General Allenby captured Jerusalem in the year 1335. According to the Muslim calendar which was the one used by the Turks who at the time held Jerusalem, this was 1917 in our era and marked the first step of the liberation of Israel’s land.” So until the year 1917 the Turks reckoned by the lunar time and therefore there coins had different dates on them to the dates of our coins. So our 1917 was the year one thousand-three hundred and thirty-five, 1335. Just as Daniel prophesied in Daniel 12:12 “Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days” that’s an impossibility of the natural isn’t it? The very year of the liberation will be the very time that was prophesied by Daniel, exact figures not something difficult for us to decipher; the coins minted by the Turks that year bearing those numbers 1335, one-thousand-three hundred and thirty-five.
Sid: Then you go on to chapter 5 where you talk about the establishment of the state of Israel and how many supernatural things had to occur.
Peter: Yeah it’s amazing it’s a miracle of God. Israel had no hope really that it would happen because they were not established as a nation at the time. They weren’t even allowed to be involved in the voting. So people listened to the radio broadcast from Fleshing Meadow on the vote that took place, and that in it’s self is an interesting thing. Here in my book “Israel in Prophecy” I list the different nations that either supported Israel and the establishment of a homeland for Israel, or the people that opposed it. It’s a testimony, interesting isn’t it that Russia supported and Russia was one of the key nations that was proposing Israel be established as a nation. Britain even after coming out of the horrors of the World War II and seeing all the terrible atrocities that had happened to the Jewish people, abstained. It’s a testimony for all of history and a sad testimony for some nations that they either opposed or failed to support Israel. Some even abstained and yet their abstention was a terrible thing and yet God by a miracle and a very narrow vote saw Israel established as a nation.
Sid: Do you have any idea why Russia supported Israel being a nation even brought it to the forefront? I mean if it wasn’t for Russia there might not have been a state of Israel.
Peter: (Chuckling) Isn’t it amazing it’s just one of those facts of history…
Sid: I, I, I… the Holy Spirit just corrected me, but there would have been a state of Israel if Russia hadn’t done it someone else would have done it. But anyway, why Russia?
Peter: But God used it yeah and a hardened communist leader who was the man that stood up there and supported it. I think there’s a number of things perhaps there was so many Russian Jews there that he wanted to release some of them from Russia, but I don’t want to put a natural reason on it. I believe that God supernaturally worked in that and that again shows His sovereign hand concerning Israel. You know you would think in the natural it would have been easier to cause Britain or one of those nations to support them, but God wanted I believe just to show that He is a sovereign even of history. At the time, and we’re going back at a time where Russia was feared as a great superpower, and yet still God was showing His hand that when it comes to Israel that He’s ultimately in control. One of the quotes that I like that I came across included in this book here was the time where Napoleon was sitting around the camp fire with his Marshals who were all atheists, the Battle of the Pyramids. They asked him “Do you believe in God?” Napoleon pointed to Marshal Massena who was a Jew and said “Gentlemen there is the unmistakable argument that there is a God.” Another quote that I put there was Frederick the Great saying to his chaplain “Show me a miracle.” To which the chaplain replied “Sire it is the Jews.” We see time and time again God’s sovereign hand as far as Israel is concerned is incredible that God still loves His people Israel.
Sid: Let me just read from your book when they had the vote Israel became a nation. Here’s one quote it says:
There was joyous outbursts and dancing in the streets throughout the Holy Land. Newspapers carried the bold headlines: A Jewish State
Of course you have reproductions of a lot of these things.
Golda Meir addressed the Jewish people from the balcony of the Jewish Agency building in Jerusalem announcing “For 2000 years we longed for deliverance. We awaited this great day with awe, now that it is here it’s so great and wondrous that it surpasses human expressions.” Many tears were shed as Hatikva was sung. The words “To be free people in our own land” acquired a new meeting.
But after Israel became a nation they couldn’t even take a breath. What happened Peter?
Peter: Yeah there was an attack. The Arab nations united together to try and destroy Israel. Each time they said “We’re going to destroy the nation of Israel” Israel ended up with great land it was a miracle protection of God. This tiny little nation but once again the hand of God was upon Israel. I like one of the comments that was made that “Israel had no other choice.” All the other nations had their own lands they had their own but Israel had no other choice. We’ve seen the miraculous protection of God time and time again where the Arab nation says “We’re going to annihilate this little nation.” God’s hand was upon them, instead of being annihilated they took further territory.
Sid: Peter you have in your book that Israel’s Air Force at that time was a small plane that was used for a private flying club. Israel’s Navy consisted of a converted ice breaker equipped with 2 – 20mm aircraft cannons and these were disguised with paper mâché to look like 6, I mean give me a break. If that wasn’t God who was it? (Laughing)
Peter: Isn’t it amazing it’s absolutely fantastic. Supernatural things that have happened too, some of the stories are miraculous interventions like in 1967 the restoration of Jerusalem. I love one of the stories where it’s reported that 2 Israeli tanks topped the sand dune in the Sinai campaign and found himself facing a complete Egyptian tank unit. The Egyptians stopped open their turrets jumped out and ran. One of the captured Egyptians soldiers reported there were hundreds of Israeli tanks. Isn’t that amazing?
Sid: They must have seen the angels.
Peter: Isn’t it amazing? Isn’t it amazing? Just a slight deviation from the subject, but one of my friends in Rhodesia as it was then, Zimbabwe today. Two of his church members were running from some of the troops that were shooting at them and they were in the hillside. Suddenly they said the whole hillside was filled with soldiers dressed in white who started shooting back at the rebel soldiers and so they ran. Incredible things God’s miraculous intervention and angelic intervention like God’s angels really are there to protect and fight on our behalf, of course Michael leading that great angelic army to protect Israel.
Sid: You know Peter it’s my thought and I believe this with every fiber of my being. The Bible says in the last days there will be great deception, false prophets that will come about. I believe that any Christian that does not have their theology straight on Israel is going to fall prey to these false prophets.
Peter: I believe so too. There’s a lot of deception, a lot of people misunderstanding, a lot of pretense from people saying “This was the land of the Palestinians” which of course they were not there people that were there beforehand. All kinds of things they were fighting for in the nations. I think it’s vitally important for preachers and for leaders that they make a stand for God’s word and for God’s love for Israel and for the nation of Israel. I believe that ministers will rise and fall depending upon their response to Israel.
Sid: I want to go back to something we were talking about earlier on. We were talking about the great Jewish zealots that went into Masada the fort, and rather than give themselves up they committed suicide. Recently they found what were known as the Masada scrolls.
Sid: Repeat what was in there.
Peter: Yeah they found them buried in the temple buried the prophecies of Ezekiel 37 that these bones shall live. A sign that they believe once again Israel would live and that the bones of Israel would be brought together, and that the nation of Israel would again miraculously be resurrected. This was at the end of this attack from the Roman army barely 40 years after Jesus had spoken the words “And they’ll fall by the edge of the sword and be led away and captive in all nations. Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” Titus and his army who had attacked and of course some of these Roman zealots who had camped out in Masada, this mountain top fortress that Harod who was afraid of everybody had built to protect himself. Finally the 10th Roman Legion under Flavius Silva crushed the resistance but before they took their own lives because they didn’t want to see their children and their wives raped and tortured to death; they still believed that one day, even though this appeared to be the end it appeared to be the last resistance the Jews having been spread throughout the Roman empire to try and cause them to lose their Jewish identity. Of course one of the amazing things that has happened because many of the Jews… most of the Jewish people didn’t intermarry they managed to maintain their identity as a Jewish people even without a homeland or without a nation. The scroll was hid there in the temple and only recently found. The words of it are absolutely fascinating…
Sid: I’m sorry we’re out of time.
Sid: My guest right here in the studio Martha Kilpatrick from Suches, Georgia. I asked her “Where in the world did Suches get its name?” And you told me:
Martha: From an Indian chief.
Sid: I said “Of course I forgot about Indian Chief Suches (laughing)… I’m getting a little goofy right now, but we’re talking about a very serious subject. I’m interviewing Martha on her new book “Chariots of Fire – Elijah the Last Days,” which gives us insight to the spirit realm that’s stopping us from having intimacy with God, fulfilling our destiny, and as Martha said it “It causes the devil to write the last chapter of our life,” and no one wants that. I want to deal a bit about Jezebel today. How does the spirit of Jezebel actually come in Martha?
Martha: Comes in through bitterness and unforgiveness, and it becomes an unconscious hatred of God. It took me years to understand that, but I’ve written Jezebel captive are God haters who want to control what God failed to manage to payback what He would not avenge. Liars who forgot they hate God and it becomes religious, ironically those who hate God go where God is.
Sid: But they put in such safeguards that look good on the outside but prevent anyone from thinking for themselves and developing their own intimacy with God.
Martha: Exactly it couldn’t have been said any better than that, that is exactly what happens. But the motive is really to murder God. I’ve written that the prime target of Jezebel haters are the succulent lambs who love love. The motive is hatred; I learned it from people who I’ve tried to help come out of it and one person told me, several people have…
Sid: Why do you have to help someone come out of it…
Martha: Because it’s a blindness, Jezebel gives you a blindness. Satan loves to blind you to your own as you said earlier to your own responsibility and involvement in it.
Sid: It is so easy to see a fault in someone else, and you know what I’ve found it’s a psychological truth, but it is the truth, is the thing that upsets you the most you better take a look at yourself as to why it upsets you so much because the same thing is in you.
Martha: Exactly. The upset is the key that is a problem. But…
Sid: So let’s talk a bit about Jezebel.
Martha: Jezebel by bitterness and unforgiveness that is the ground root that comes in. From 2 people who have really confessed to me what they think I’ve been shocked at the thought life of a believer that can…
Sid: Let’s take one of these people because we are not mentioning names, tell me about what shocked you so much.
Martha: This person told me several things: 1. That she plotted to murder and one of them was me. She plotted my murder. In her imagination she had such a level of hatred in her thoughts and did not think it was wrong.
Sid: Look at… it’s actually playing out in life, now I don’t think these people are Christians of husbands murdering wives, wives murdering husbands, I mean its coming to the surface in today’s society but… I guess what someone does is they just entertain that thought….
Sid: …and once they entertain it it becomes an obsession.
Martha: And Satan enters it. In some diabolical way affirms to the person in their thoughts that they’re right and it’s just.
Sid: It’s hard for me to comprehend how…
Martha: It is hard.
Sid: …the devil could be so clever to do that but we see it.
Martha: It’s hard for me to comprehend that a person could have those thoughts and not know that it’s sin.
Sid: But see it’s one thing to have a thought, it’s another thing to entertain that thought.
Martha: Exactly to brood and to rage over it. It is…
Sid: It is like the unforgiveness business, the more you mull over how John struck you, the deeper it gets.
Martha: Yes and it grows. It’s what the scripture says “Don’t let the sun go down on your anger lest the devil gets a stronghold.” Well the stronghold of bitterness grows and grows until you believe that your evil thoughts are entirely right and that God agrees with you. That is the inner insanity of the Jezebel spirit.
Sid: So what happened with this woman that confessed that she was literally plotting to murder you? I still find this hard to believe but go ahead.
Martha: It is very hard to believe. That woman hasn’t come out of it another one has.
Sid: Well tell me about the one that has (laughing).
Martha: (Laughing) Let’s talk about the one who has. She has spent many months repenting, seeking God with all of her heart, on her face fasting, praying, and He has been very faithful to build an intimate relationship with her to receive her seeking Him. She’s coming through but it’s a hard work because it can’t be… it’s a character flaw. It doesn’t begin as a demonic entity that you can just cast out, it begins as a character flaw where you do not obey what you know in scripture, and you don’t obey the Lord and hear his voice and move in that intimacy. So it begins in the character flaw, it becomes a demonic thing. So to solve it you have to go back and build integrity in secret in your heart.
Sid: Step by step how does someone do this?
Martha: I really don’t think a person deep in Jezebel can come out of it apart from the accountability of the body of Christ because as Elijah did it it takes enormous confrontation and commitment to a person to help them come out. if a person will accept the accountability and the help of the body of Christ they can come out of it.
Sid: You know why I see a catch-22 going on worldwide as I travel around the world Martha and there appears to be those that want intimacy and going on with God and are in churches that are more religious than intimacy, more control than freedom, more “I’m not willing to experiment in the Holy Spirit because it might rock my ship. I’m not willing to fend my big tithers,” are pulling back from organized church and they’re out there but they say “I can get more in my prayer closet than this religious system” but yet God wants us to assemble together it’s almost like it’s a catch-22.
Martha: Well I believe that for the serious believer that is willing to follow the Lord anywhere that the Lord builds a body around you. It may be several people in other states, but the key to coming out of Jezebel is personal relationship with other believers. Where God has called people together to help each other run the race…
Sid: When you’re say “Call people together” you’re not necessarily saying a “building, a church”…
Sid: …a whole structure.
Martha: Right this can take place within the structure. A group of people that God has bonded together it can take place outside of the structure. The key is when God calls people together in relationship we are there to help each other run the race. The one who will accept that, and this woman very bravely did very courageously, she could have gone back in the organized church and then totally secluded and not found out. I think T. Austin Sparks wrote “Only in a body of Christ can through evil but surface.” That’s an astonishing thing.
Sid: Sure if there wasn’t marriage then we’d never find out what’s wrong with us (laughing).
Martha: (Laughing) A prided thing that’s wonderful. But she was willing to except the accountability and numbers of us have worked with her. She’s been very courageous and really prayed hours and days on the end that God would show her and help her, and He has. Though we’ve pointed her in the right direction and we’ve helped her see her work alone has been the thing that has brought her through. I can’t help another person surrender to God, that’s a work they have to do themselves, but she’s come through to realize it’s ironically exactly what Elijah said “That God is God.”
Sid: Once someone really and truly comes to grip with this, that they’re under the influence of an Elijah spirit, or under a… not Elijah they’re under the influence of a Jezebel spirit or an Ahab spirit and then they repent. I mean its… that simple?
Martha: Revelation gives that as the remedy, the only remedy to Jezebel repent. It is that it is simple, and yet God must grant it. You can start with what you know and repent of that and ask God humbly to give you the repentance that’s the work of the Holy Spirit. That work of the Holy Spirit is light, and when it falls on you you see and you renounce and you’re transformed. You’re also transformed by confessions, confession is much about this, confession to one another brings healing.
Sid: Confess your sins one to another to be healed.
Martha: Exactly and the promise of 1st John 1:9 is that you confess your sins not only will He forgive you but He will cleanse you. So it’s enormous confession of these thoughts, of the selfishness, the extreme… both Jezebel and Ahab ride on extreme self-centeredness. The saving of self, the protecting of self, and the abandoning of self to God is the solution.
Sid: Now it’s important to have a brother or sister in the Lord that you so trust that you can be transparent to confess that sin and then get to the prayer of agreement.
Martha: Yes, yes it’s crucial for people who have covered up with evil who’ve given themselves over to evil, it’s crucial to have…
Sid: But see God’s definition of evil and man’s definition of evil are different. Man’s definition is “Well I haven’t murdered anyone, I haven’t robbed an banks lately, I’m a good person (patting themselves on the shoulder)” but they’re just totally controlled with self…
Martha: And that’s what the evil is. That’s the root of every form of evil whether it’ religious persecution, of course it was the religious that killed Jesus not the common man.
Sid: Martha how in the world is God going to fix the church because God loves the church, the church is the body, I’m not talking about the building it’s the body of believers? There’s got to be a change, we’ve become so fossilized and so religious.
Martha: Well even that may produce the hunger and it will break it through. Our very cement may become intolerable to… may it be so, may it become intolerable to us so that we will want to break out of what’s happening all over. I believe that where there’s just the slightest desire for God He rushes in to give more desire that will issue in the freedom.
Sid: You know Martha there is not one key for this but there are keys for this. I’m convinced God has put your thumb on the pulse of a key that is stopping intimacy with most Christians.
Sid: Sid Roth here with Mark Virkler talking about something that is music to your ears, “How you can hear clearly the voice of God.” Now you teach Mark on meditation of scripture in a different way than I’ve ever heard someone teach this before, explain.
Mark: Well you know when I grew up I just memorized the verse “To study and show yourself approved and I kind of never got to all the verses that says “Mediate on My word day and night.” So I asked the Lord “What’s the difference between study and meditation?” He showed me the difference when you meditate part of mediation is you’re praying over the word and your allowing God to illumine the word to your heart. And the way we experience that verse it leaps off the pages of scripture, hit you between the eyes and you know God has just opened that verse to you right there and right then. And I thought that every listener has had that experience.
Sid: Yeah but not enough!
Mark: (Laughing) well you can have it every single time you go the Bible.
Sid: Really I mean every…once and awhile I’ll have a Rhema; I’ll have you know scripture jump off the page. But are you telling me I can have it every day?
Mark: I guarantee you can have it every day because I do and I never used to and I do and….
Sid: So tell me I’m all ears.
Mark: Okay well you posture your heart instead of going to the Bible and saying “I can figure it out;” which is dependent on my brain and my abilities and me. I go to the Bible with a humble attitude and say “Holy Spirit would you show me what’s here?” And so I’m humble, I’m meek, I’m inviting the Holy Spirit to give me revelation, I’m tuned to flow because out of my innermost being shall flow. So I’m allowing flow to guide the process, I’m allowing flow to tell me where to look and what to look at and what to see and I’m starting with real life issues saying “God I’m struggling with this particular issue can you give me scripture show me principals here?” And I’m imagining here because one of the words for meditation means to imagine so I’m picturing the scene, I’m picturing the disciples, I’m picturing them breaking the loaves and saying “Lord what do you want to say to me about breaking the loaves in my own life and taking limited provision I feel I have right now and multiplying it so that it’s no longer limited?” And then I begin to flow and journal out a half of page of what He saying to me; so all of those elements are part of the book of mediation.
Sid: Now there are a lot of Christians that have a fear of visualization they think it’s New Age what would you say to them about that?
Mark: Well I would say it’s not New Age; I would say that New Agers are free to visualize if they want to they’re free to do anything, they can drive cars, they can get married but that doesn’t mean that I can’t drive cars or I can’t get married just because they do. And so I want to go back to the Bible and say “Does the Bible contain pictures and does it encourage picturing?” Well yeah it does here is what King David says in Acts 2:25 he says “I behold the Lord always in my presence, He is at my right hand and I will not be shaken.” And in Psalm 16:8 he says “I have set the Lord at my right hand.” Well that is a good visualization he decided to picture the Lord right there at his right hand and if King David can do it I can surely do it.
Sid: Yeah but I like the rest of that verse not only is He at his right hand he says “I will not be moved.” That’s pretty cool (Giggling)
Mark: Isn’t that great because you know I get pushed around by life, I get angry, I get frustrated, I get depressed and David says “I’m not going to get any of those things I won’t be moved at all as long as I see Jesus present with me.” Because He’s not getting angry, he’s not getting frustrated He’s calm and if my eyes are on Him I’ll be calm also.
Sid: Now you told me that God showed you 4 principals and each principal of course would take a long time to teach but I wonder if the rest of this show we can approach it a little differently. I’m wondering if you could teach me how to hear God’s voice and then people that are listening will kind of really capture what’s involved. And start me the way God started you I think that’s a good way to start.
Mark: (Laughing) Alright well we’ll just go to Habakkuk 2:1 and 2. Habakkuk said “I’m going to go to my guard-post.” So Key #1 is to have a little prayer closet where you go and quiet yourself down in the presence of God.
Sid: Do you find that it’s important to have the same place not necessarily a closet but the same place every day to pray? Does that help you?
Mark: It helps me and I also find early morning helps me but it doesn’t help my wife because she’s not an early morning person. But when I get up my hearts ready to download revelation it received during the night. And I just tune to flow and I pray for awhile…
Sid: Well revelation you received at night; what kind of revelation you’ve received at night?
Mark: Well it depends on what I asked for when I go to sleep at night I ask God to give me revelation.
Sid: Oh really I just kind of whatever God wants to show me He shows me you get more purposeful.
Mark: I’m more purposeful because the Bible…because our spirits don’t go to sleep our spirits stay awake and they work on anything you tell it to work on.
Sid: You know I’ve interviewed people that tell me they pray in tongues but they tell me when they sleep they’re spirit is praying in tongues all night long.
Mark: Well your spirits going to do when you tell it to do so you know if you go to bed praying in tongues you’ll probably pray in tongues all night. I go to bed sleep saying the name of Jesus over and over. As I breath in and out I’m saying “Jesus.”And if I need peace I say “Peace.” And if I need calm I say “Calm.” And so I go to sleep in the presence of Jesus.
Sid: Well what about…alright let’s take an example give me an example of something you’ve asked God and then received a dream on.
Mark: Well we’ll take this morning well how about this morning’s revelation okay.
Mark: I did a blog a couple of days ago what’s wrong with the Protestant Heritage Foundation?” And I said “Well it’s kind of reactionary to Catholicism,” and I don’t want to be part of a reactionary movement necessarily. And so I’ve had 2 people email me and say “How do I find a really great Spirit anointed church?” And I went to bed thinking about that and the Lord gave me this morning a page and a half outline of saying “We can have Spirit led home groups, or small groups. You can open your home up and you can have these New Testament groups in your home where you meet together where you share the Spirit together, you have words of wisdom, you pray for one another, you lay hands on each other, you get words of wisdom, words of knowledge, you pray in the Spirit and you nurture that in the home group.” And I had a pastor 2 days ago who’s run a home group for 25 years and I called him up this morning and he said “Yeah, I’ll write a story of what we do in our home group and I’ll video tape the whole thing.” And I feel the Lord’s saying today “Paint a picture for people of what they can do in their home, how they can do it, put tools in their hand so that they can turn their homes into these Spirit led home-groups. Give people the freedom to grow in the Spirit and develop the gifts and they have a mini-church right there in their homes.
Sid: Okay, let’s come back to me help me hear God’s voice.
Mark: (Laughing) Alright you want to become still you want to have a guard post and so you know I’ve got to get up to my desk and I’ve got some soft soaking music on the background and I’ve got a smile on my face, I’ve got my hands on the keyboard, I open up a software file and I type in “Lord, what do you want to say to me today?” And I tune to flow and that’s to still my mind to get my mind out of the way.
Sid: Help me out “What do you mean, you tune to flow?”
Mark: (Laughing) Well God’s voice sounds like flowing thoughts that light upon my mind. And the scriptures support for that is John chapter 7:37 – 39. “Out of my inter-most being shall flow rivers of living water.” This He spoke in the Spirit and so when I want to tune to the Spirit within me that verse says “He feels like flow.” So if I want words from the Spirit I tune to flowing thoughts. If I want visions from the Spirit I tune to flowing pictures, if I want God’s emotions I tune to flowing emotions. And earlier in my Christian life I had no understanding of flow; I mean I memorized the verse “Out of my innermost being shall flow.” But I just didn’t own the concept that flow within me is an anointing of the Spirit of God. And when I speak from flow I’m speaking the oracles of God and when I think in flow I have the mind of Christ. And that thing that’s flow guiding my reasoning process. And when I tune my hands to flow and lay them on somebody who’s sick and there’s a flow of heat and energy that’s the anointing of the Spirit to heal the sick and to cast out demons. So anytime I yield the outer faculty to the flow in me that faculty becomes an extension of Jesus for that point in time.
Sid: Now just out of curiosity you sound like a pretty organized person and methodical, have you ever practiced flow while teaching or preaching and what’s happened?
Mark: Well yes I most certainly have what the Lord journeyed and talked to me about my teaching style. He said “Mark your teaching style and preaching style will be adjusted by your lifestyle; and the more you live and flow with Me in your morning devotional time right from flow and take Me with you throughout the day the more your preaching style will be adjusted.” So now I preach from flow, I teach from flow, I just get up smile tune to flow and off we go and we go places and we have rabbit trails that we go and I have to come back to my notes if I even bother to come back to my notes. But people love the teaching style because it’s real, it’s vibrant it’s full of passion and emotion, love. It’s alive with the Spirit where it used to be much more didactic, much more structured I had an outline and I looked at it. So yes my preaching style is now from flow any my speaking style is now from flow, and my speaking style is now from flow, and my counseling style is from flow; everything at this point is from flow and my conversation with you.
Sid: Now you have taught this “How to Hear God’s Voice” for some 35 years so why was there the need to do this new interactive book “Hearing God?” You had plenty of stuff before.
Mark: Well you know this is probably one of the simplest, easiest versions of the whole thing. We spent a little bit less time building the whole theology and a little bit more time just saying “Hey I’m at your side I’m coaching you I’m asking this question just fill it in and just go with it.” So without laying all of the intense foundation we’re just taking the person that just wants to coach and will trust that coach and saying “We’re going to walk you into hearing God’s voice very easily, we’re going to walk you into interpreting dreams very easily, and into interpreting scripture very easily. And we’re going to help you with the first half of a dozen of each one of those cases.
Sid: I have to tell you Mark there is such a flow of the presence of God on our discussion right now I can’t wait to get the reports. And by the way, do you get many reports of people that have sat under your teaching and have been able to do everything that you’ve done and more?
Mark: We get 100’s and 100’s of reports unsolicited reports all the time that come in on our website and on our email. And so we’re blessed beyond beyond belief.
Sid: ….But it’s not just Jewish ministry we are equipping Christians to be normal, normal as defined by the Bible. I got…Mark I got the most wonderful email in yesterday. I’ve had a burden to communicate the true gospel with people that are homosexuals and I have not been that successful. I have friends in the homosexual community but I haven’t been that successful. Well someone started watching our TV show that was gay and they wrote me a letter and they’re saying that they have been totally set free and they attribute it to just learning more about God from It’s Supernatural Television and Messianic Vision Radio. So that made my year as far as I’m concerned. When we come back I want to cover those 4 keys that God showed you.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be on the right side of the fence because according to Matthew 25 there is a division between goat nations and sheep nations. And if you do not stand with the Jew in Israel this is what Jesus says “As you have done unto the least of these My brethren (He’s talking about the physical Jews) you’ve done unto Me.” The single dividing line between goat nations and sheep nations by God Himself will be on what will be on what you do with the Jew in Israel. I have Jim Goll on the phone I’m talking to him about his new book “Exodus Cry.” If you have not read this I urge you to get a copy because the history that he’s put together. And as you explained to me Jim it’s as if the Holy Spirit was directing you from one book on another book to put all of this history together so that the Christians could develop the compassion and the heart that God has for the Jew in Israel. But I want to start out with a question. What will happen to a Christian, I mean a Christian that believes in Jesus that’s born again or a church or a born again church that says “God’s through with the Jew in Israel” or “I don’t like what the Jewish people have done to those Palestinian people” and they’ve seen the biased press and not the true story. What will happen to those Christians, what will happen to those churches?
Jim: You know so much of this deals with the prophetic destiny of an individual’s life and the prophetic destiny of a congregation or let me take it further a city, a state, or even a nation as you have very well put, stated. Just recently I had the privilege of participating in at the State Capital of Nashville where our legislature with a Governor’s signature took a pro-Israel stand from the volunteer State of Tennessee. We up linked it and this went live and was broadcast live into Israel. You know what? If you bless Israel you’ll be blessed, if you curse you will be cursed.” This is a message of truth of God’s word, for an individual, for a family, for a congregation, for a denomination, a city, a state, a nation it is an eternal truth. And so here I’m not referring to whether a person goes to heaven that we’re all saved by the mercy and grace obviously through the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, but in progressive prophetic destiny. I’m going to tell you if you poke your finger in God’s eye the pupil that we’ve talked about in Zachariah 2:8 your eyesight will go out. You will stop in your progression of truth, you will stop in your journey, you’ll become a settler instead of continuing on as a pioneer. And darkness will be given to you instead of light. Let’s say it now in the positive what will happen to those that bless. Light will be given to you, blessing will be given to you, dreams and visions and revelation will be given to you. The privilege of partnering in God’s purposes in the end-times will be given to you, God’s heart will be given to you. But if you do the opposite…
Sid: I’m just wondering that one of the messages of the hour is to seek God, to have intimacy with God.
Sid: Do believe that this is a catalyst for intimacy with God?
Jim: I believe that I believe that there are 3 things, actually 3 things that if you want to be close to God’s heart you need to be involved in 3 things. That’s with the poor, the lost and Israel you need to be involved in some active manner of your faith with the poor, to the lost, and with Israel. And if you will bless and if you will give yourself God will pour out on you His heart. I call it your heart will beat in rhythm with His heart, we call it greater union with Christ. You’re using the term intimacy I just say this Isaiah says this “I will draw near to you as you draw near to Me.”
Sid: Tell me a bit about the Mordecai Call.
Jim: Well you know in Esther chapter 4 verse 14 it says “If you remain silent at this time relief and deliverance will arise for the Jews from another place and you and your father’s house will perish and who knows whether you have not obtained royalty for such a time as this.” I am convinced then in this hour God is not looking for 1 Mordecai but He’s looking for a company of fore-runners that He will put this Mordecai anointing upon. And they become trumpeters, they become voices like Sid Roth, they become voices and I can list many different names today who are going forth preparing the way for the Body of Christ and corporate Esther to arise in this hour to take their stand before the throne of the King the throne of the universe and go in and make crisis intervention just like Reese Howells did in World War II and they labored over the promises. Not just preservation of Great Britain from Nazi invasion they labored over the promises of the birthing of Israel as a nation and of this hour. God wants to raise up modern day Mordecai’s that the spirit of adoption will rest upon and they will adopt Israel in their heart and they will help raise up this intercessory warring bride of Christ who will fight the fight the wars of the Lord.
Sid: Why should be average Christian in America be praying for the Jewish people to be saved for Israel to survive as a nation?
Jim: Well you know I kind of want to say it the other way, why not? You know again first of all it’s because the physical mandate. I got 7 reasons why to pray for Israel.
- Because Israel’s the apple of God’s eye; the inheritance which is close to His heart.
- Because God says that His servants should pray with compassion over Israel Psalm 102.
- We should do it because God commands us to give Him and ourselves no rest until He establishes and makes Jerusalem a praise in the earth.
- Isaiah 62 to receive God’s heart. God’s heart will travel through us for Israel’s salvation like He did Paul’s in the book of Romans.
- To seek the spiritual and physical wellbeing God commands us to speak to speak the spiritual and physical good of Israel. Psalm 122, Romans 15, etcetera and the Jewish people’s acceptance of the Messiah Jesus will lead to life from the dead a worldwide revival of unprecedented magnitude there we read Romans 15.
- And Isaiah 27 verse 6 “In the days to come Jacob will take root Israel will blossom and sprout and the will fill the whole earth with fruit.
- And the last one I just want to say real quick number 7 is “Why pray for Israel?” When you pray for Israel you’re praying for the Second Coming of Yeshua Hamashiach because Jesus Second Return is tied in with Israel turning her heart to the Messiah.
Sid: And as you know and point out in your book the Christians during Hitler’s Germany there were the exceptions the Corey Ten Boom’s and it’s that and etcetera but by in large Christians did not pray.
Jim: That’s right.
Sid: And look what the devil was able to carry out; it’s almost a I don’t know if you’ve ever seen this in the book of Esther since you teach on Mordecai.
Sid: Esther went to the King twice it’s almost like she chickened out the first time on behalf of the Jewish people but she really did business with the King the second time. It’s almost like we’ve been given a second chance like Esther.
Jim: That’s absolutely that is my message in the book. We are being given more than a second chance. God’s the God of the 50 million chance but we’re being given a second massive end-time opportunity as a church to arise in this hour and not judge after the flesh but judge after according to the word of God and get God’s heart. I again just have to make the deal in this book. “I’m calling forth for 3 days of prayer and fasting every year during the time of Esther’s time of fasting at the time of Purim for God’s purposes for Israel and the Jewish people worldwide. The hunters are being released right now, who’s going to make a difference? Will you make a difference? Will I make a difference? What is the records of eternity going to record I want you and I to come down on the side of mercy for Israel and for the Jewish people; I want to end up on the side of the blessing, I want you to end up on the side of the blessing and I want you to align yourself with God’s purposes. Would you do that, and would you join us in the greatest global prayer movement where Replacement Theology is replaced with God’s heart?
Sid: For those that aren’t familiar what is Replacement Theology?
Jim: Well it’s where the promises for the Jewish people were taken out of historical context and said that they missed their opportunity and they were replaced saying that all of these Old Testament passages are for the church. Instead of the God that is faithful will remain faithful to His word even when we’re faithless and yet remain true in our promises for the Jewish people.
Sid: Mishpochah I’m speaking to Jim Goll featuring this week his new book “Exodus Cry.” The information that he has obtained it is so concise and yet so complete on the history of the Jewish people the history of anti-Semitism and what to do about it….
Sid: Many people are crying out to God “I want to be free. I’ve prayed but I’m not free.” My guest this week is Bishop George Bloomer he’s Senior Pastor at Bethel Family Worship Center in Durham, North Carolina. Yesterday we found out he was a drug addict, he was involved in a cult, he was involved in gangs, he ended up in prison, and in prison he found the Lord. But he really abstained from drugs he was set free and shortly thereafter he continued in his life of drugs while preaching. But one day God had mercy and he was sovereignly set free of his cocaine addiction and he hasn’t had it since. There’s a big difference between deliverance and abstinence. Most Christians are moving in their own will power rather than being supernaturally sovereignly set free. Now another problem George that you had was as a child you were molested. What happened?
George: I call that experience 3D because it was in 453 Columbia Street Brooklyn, New York apartment 3D. There was a young lady who had a live in lover a common law husband and they broke up. They would come to our house on the weekends and gamble and play cards and party in the projects, that was the norm for the weekend. I would do errands for her run to the store, go to the laundry mat do things where she’d give me a $1 or so in those days. When he left her she would hug me and pay me and the hugs would get closer and more intense and the kisses would be closer to my mouth. One afternoon she took me into the adult world of sexuality. The thing that is indelibly impressed in mind and feared in mind about the deliverance is that it robbed me from my innocence at age, the latter part of my 11 year to age 12. This went on for about a year or so. She robbed me of my innocence; we used to play a little game in the streets in Brooklyn called Skelzies. Take bottle tops and fill them with asphalt and use them to knock other kid’s tops out of the box. Sort of like a homemade projects ghetto version of marbles. My pockets were filled with the bottle tops that I had won from the other kids. But when that sexual urge kicked in I would stand up and go upstairs for 10-20 minutes be a man and then return right back downstairs sweating and playing Skelzies again. It bothered me as I grew up it made it impossible for me to date and look at younger ladies who were my age. There was a young girl in the projects whose name was Tanya I was really really excited about her and I liked her. I started talking to her and her mother came and put her fist in my chest and pushed me against the wall and told me “No Bloomer was ever going to be involved with her daughters for me to stay away from her daughter!” That stayed with me years and years and years and I remembered at age 32 I was called back to Red Hook to the school that I grew up in, Public School 27. About a thousand people showed up and I’m back on my own soil in my own area to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. Up comes to me this woman who’s asking me if I remember who she is, and I didn’t. When she told me her name she said “I’m Tanya’s mother” immediately I remembered and she told me Tanya’s fate and plight in life and how she was strung out on drugs, and she had crack babies, 3 babies who were born crack addicts. She turned to walk away from me and looked back at me said to “I sure wished you and Tanya would have stayed together.” Immediately I was overwhelmed by the presence of God. The little boy whose head was stuck in my chest, and whose feet was stuck in my ankles, and fingers and hands that was stuck at my wrists began to grow into my physical hands, my physical feet and come up through my neck and choke me as that little boy began to grow in me. I believe that was the day the Lord delivered me. The rejection that I had received from this woman held me hostage, held this little 12 year old boy hostage entrapped inside a 32 year old man with all the sexual problems and addictions that I had dealt with in coming up. It seemed to me like I needed to be released, or affirmed, or accepted by this woman who had rejected me so many years prior to that.
Sid: How did this change your life?
George: Oh completely, completely. I’m married and I have 2 children…
Sid: Were you married at the time?
George: Absolutely. I was married but quiet in my marriage. Not as attentive, not as loving as I should have been. My marriage changed totally. I was able to fully embrace my wife and trust her as a woman and protect and cover my children. Not become overbearing but to protect and to cover them and they’ve grown up to become very very beautiful young ladies ages of 16 and 17. It brought a great deliverance in my life and I speak to those in your listening audience may have been abused and are dealing with secrets and addictions, and rejections as it goes. To find someone that you can confide in and tell them your story, get free from you so that you can live the rest of your life.
Sid: How does someone handle… God developed the human mind in such a way that sometimes when trauma happens to us when we’re young we block it and bury it so deeply we don’t even know what it is. We just know the symptoms of it, we don’t even remember what happened like you remembered what happened to you. What should someone do about that?
George: What you said is absolutely true because for a number of years I didn’t remember, I knew something was wrong.
George: But subconsciously I didn’t remember but God knew that He was moving me into this vein of ministry. So in order to deal with it He had to bring me back to it. I’ll tell you a quick story, before I went preach for Bishop T.D. Jakes at Manpower he called me and asked me would I be one of the speakers. I said “Yes.” A friend of mine’s son plays opposite to Denzel Washington in a movie entitled “The Hurricane.” I bought the video and began to watch the video because I wanted, you know support his son’s role and I wanted to know about his nephew. I was watching the video at a party that I had given, and when I got to the part in the movie where Denzel Washington was locked in solitary confinement cell. He came apart from himself physically and emotionally I couldn’t handle it. I started crying and sobbing in the middle of the movie was and I got up walked into the hallway. A friend of mine came out and he said “What’s wrong?” I told him “I can’t handle all this I don’t know what’s happening but I can’t handle it.” What God was doing at that moment was reminding me of all of the issues that I hadn’t dealt with and that I needed to get free from it because I was put into a solitary confinement cell and there I would talk to myself constantly and contemplate killing myself and taking myself out laughing and joking with myself over these 4 weeks that I was in the dark in a confinement cell with defecation coming down the walls when they’d flush the commodes from upstairs. God had to help me to deal with that before I could go into that arena and minister to those 36,000 men who had come from all different walks of life to Manpower to be set free.
Sid: Your book, your new book “Weapons for Warriors.” If you don’t mind I’ve subtitled it “Armed and Dangerous.” What will happen when someone reads your book?
George: A number of things when they begin to read the 18 lessons on spiritual warfare and realize that you can be set free and delivered from anything that has happened to you in your past. When they begin to realize that there’s lessons in the book that deals with the sovereignty of God and confrontational lessons. The first lesson is “Satan You’re not a Solvent.” To put Satan in his place and let him know that God is solvent over our lives. The next lesson is “The Plot to Destroy our Destiny” and that’s going to set a lot of people free. There’s a lesson in there that deals with Satan’s fall…
Sid: Most people are missing their destiny because of the snares that the devil has set. Like for instance, if you weren’t set free the last thing in the world you’d be dead right now, I’m sure.
George: I’d be dead. I’d be dead. The heroin would’ve taken me out. A few weeks before I walked down the DeKalb Avenue to go into the church to get set free, I had started contemplating shooting up heroin. I had been talking to people finding getting me information on it because the high of snorting cocaine and smoking it I was looking for a greater high going to another level. It was there that God delivered and set me free before I was going to… my destiny would have been destroyed I would have been dead. But Satan is a defeated foe and the people of God need to know that. When we get know our adversary and know the demonology and government and the devices of Satan and how he uses depression, oppression in order to possess us. Then God will teach us how to cast the devil out. When we understand that we understand the very phases of demonology and what is witchcraft, and religious demons and how to identify and break generational curses. How to reject rejection, and then those…
Sid: I love that title: “Reject rejection.”
George: (Laughing) Those addictions won’t be able to hold us then God will help us to be… to confront the spirit of pride, and embrace the power of worship and realize that He has encamped angels round and about us. That He has truly taken us from the old existence of Adam and placed us in His loving tender care. The new Adam which is Christ Jesus and you will be armed and dangerous with this book.
Sid: But let me ask you this, usually people have to come in person to be ministered. Can someone really be set free just through following what this book says?
George: Absolutely, totally.
Sid: Are you seeing many people set free?
George: Well first I was set free. I was putting together the final edits on my book “Witchcraft in the Pews,” and my family had gone out to the state fair and I was in the house alone by myself. I was doing some writing but I was listening to a tape because…
Sid: Ohh! We’re out of time we’ll tell this story on tomorrow’s broadcast.