Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Dr. Mark Gabriel. I’m speaking to him in a city in Florida. Why am I being evasive? Well #1 that’s not even his real name. The reason I’m being evasive is, let me tell you his background. Mark was formerly a professor of Islamic history at the most prestigious Islamic university in the world. He has not only a Master’s degree, but a doctorate degree in Islamic studies. In addition to that 15 years ago if you were to talk to him you would have found him an Imam in a mosque in Egypt. That’s sort of like the pastor of a congregation. What he has to say I believe would change the thinking of most popular television, newscasters, and talk show hosts in America, even the president of the United States if he were to know this information. I am fascinated Mark that when you were in this major university in Cairo, Egypt you had an interesting professor that would come in from time to time. He was blind, tell me about him.
Mark: Yeah this blind man is called Dr. Omar Abdel Rahman, he was teaching the subject of the Quran commentary…
Sid: Now this man today is in prison because he was the mastermind before the first World Trade Center attack.
Mark: Yes he’s life sentenced now in Missouri I think.
Sid: I would be fascinated to know some of the things he taught you when you were in school.
Mark: He taught me when I was in first year at the university studying the Islamic history and culture in the department of Islamic history. He was teaching us the integration of Quran or the Quran commentary subject. From the first weeks I felt really… realized that this man is not normal professor like the other professors they start teaching us from the beginning of the first year, in that first year. So always I find him he just takes time with the verses the scriptures it speaks about the holy war against the enemies of Islam. He takes time to describe who is the enemies of Islam, which type of people, where they are located. Also he… what I would like to say that he memorized the entire Quran. He just take the side of the Quranic Medina, when I say Quranic Medina that means Quran has 2 parts. The first part was written in the 12 years which Mohammed lived in Mecca preaching his new relation and he was just talking about peace and reaching out. The people in Mecca you see in a kind way but after he immigrate to Medina we faced in the Islamic theology and in the Quranic subject that the second part revealed to him as he claimed in Medina speaking about for the first time about holy war against the enemies of Islam.
Sid: That’s very interesting. In other words, what you say is because there seems to be contradictory statements in the Quran, where if you took one group of statements you would say Islam is a peace loving religion, but if you take the other group of statements there very hateful diabolic writings. You’re saying before he went to Medina he was more peace loving, but after Medina, came this rhetoric of literally what we see today around the world.
Mark: Yes absolutely and this is what really causes the confusion in our world today. You will see some people in the secular media presenting Islam as a peaceful religion, but they supporting they claim by the verses who written in Mecca. But all the verses speak about that who written in Mecca but already was cancelled by the latter verses which was written in Medina. So for example, in Mecca he says when he asks about Christians and the Jews and he say that these people is the people of the book. These people they believing in God, these people believing in angles and the books of God, and the prophets of God, and there is no other further between us and them. Their religion is our religion their father it was Abraham, and our father is Abraham also. But when he came and moved to Medina the picture was changed. This is really… when you look to the Muslim Imam in Washington DC for example comes and interviews by the media here in the United States. He will present Islam as a fitful religion he will prove by Mecca verses, but when you come and just to listen to Osama Bin Laden or one of his peoples speaking about Jihad and holy war, and they must submit them to the authority of Islam. Islam came and cancelled any type of religion that came before. This is means… Osama Bin Laden and his people they are using these verses who was written in Medina.
Sid: Hmm. Well that sure explains that, but let’s go back to this mastermind of the first attack on the World Trade Center, this Omar Abdel Rahman. You asked him a question and you said “Why is it that you teach us all the time about Jihad, holy war?” What did he say?
Mark: See I said “Okay if he just keep using the Medina verses so what we going to say with the Mecca verses? Why he just take the side of the Medina verses?” So I did ask him “Doctor why do you keep teaching us and telling us about the verses of Medina, and you just forgot all the time the verses of Mecca? Why you present just Mohammed as the soldier, as the military guy, as the one he came just to fight and to kill and to die in the name of Allah? But you forget the kind way and the peaceful way he was lived in Mecca during the 12 years he was preaching Islam.” What he said to me, he said to me “My son you have to understand you cannot take the verses out of context. You Have to understand that Jihad is the head of the Islamic religion, and if you take Jihad outside of Islam you will take the head of the body of Islam. You will destroy Islam, Islam will not survive without Jihad.”
Sid: How did you react to that answer at that time?
Mark: This is… his answer was increased my confusion because as a person you see… it’s not going to be very exciting to me just to learn in a war, or to live with a hatred against other people. I was really… his answer was increased my confusion between the verses in Mecca and the verses in Medina. These 2 parts of life, what you call it in Mohammed’s life and it’s make me more confused, and also was pushed me to go further and search about very early Islam and the final picture about the Quranic teaching.
Sid: Let me read something where you quote where you quote from Surah 8:39 that comes from the Quran. In the Noble translation of the Quran let me read this. It says:
Fight them until there is no more fitnah (which means disbelief or polytheism or worshipping anyone) outside of their god Allah and the religion will be for Allah alone in the whole world.
So what this is saying is that according to the Quran that the Muslims should fight anyone that is not making Allah their god. What does fight mean?
Mark: Fight means to go and to kill or to die in the name of Allah. Fight to go and to conquer the non-Muslims people, or non-Muslims nations. I’ll just give you a little example about this verse. This verse comes with another verse in the same chapter also it’s called the diverse of the sword. Mohammed after he lived for 12 years in Mecca preaching his religion, or his revelation in a peaceful way. He was persecuted by the idol worshippers in Mecca, he immigrate to Medina. He lived in Medina for 1 year and this first year in Medina he looked out around himself and he find the majority of the community in Medina was a Jewish people, Jewish tribes, Jewish villages. He was very excited to have these people around him there, or to be in the middle of them there in Medina. He tried hard to work and to win the Jewish community in Medina. This is why he just claims Abraham as his father, and his religion is the religion of Abraham. Just he liked to, he liked to win, or working hard to win the Jewish community. When he was rejected by the Jewish community he start to prepare his power and his military and we start to face that the new verses come day after day. On one of these verses, the verse now we just read for me now, and the other one we see explain that he must go and fight this Jewish community or another people if they are living around him in Medina, or in Arabia later to submit them to Islam. He came and he explained that Islam came and cancelled Christianity, cancelled the religion of Judaism, there is no religion going to be worshipped after Islam. Islam is the final revelation, came with the final testament, came with the final prophet.
Sid: You know Mark I am really struck by the fact it’s so amazing. The same thing happened in Christianity some of the church fathers like Martin Luther started out by blessing the Jewish people, then when Jewish people rejected his overtures towards believing in Jesus it turned to hate, where even Adolf Hitler could not have come up with any stronger rhetoric against Jews than just the quotes of Martin Luther. Well look we’re out of time.
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth